Midlife Dimensions


Christmas Day – 12/25/09

1: 13 Rosco: I had a mid life crisis I guess, and to put it bluntly I had an affair almost four years ago. College sweetheart. She wanted attention and I was frustrated in my marriage. But had not said anything to her.



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Christmas Day – 12/25/09


12: 58 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello everyone and welcome to this special MLD chat. Hoping everyone is rejoicing today in celebration of the gift God gave to us in His son, Jesus.

1: 01 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello Rosco, welcome

1: 02 Rosco: Thank you. New to this whole thing. Hope I can type fast enough.

1: 04 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - fast typing isn't required and if you get behind on reading, you can click the lock scrolling and the screen will not auto scroll. But remember to either unlock to read new entries or manually scroll.

1: 04 Rosco: I have been on this roller coaster for over three years and now am still not at rock bottom. I have touched it but not been able to turn my life around to the point of returning. What do we normally discuss here?

1: 05 Rosco: Also figured out you can't type a novel

1: 06 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yes, if you don't get your question/response in one shot, just type Cont or continued at the beginning of the next entry. entries are limited to 150 characters. Also please do not use real names in chat.

1: 07 Rosco: Really. Why is that?

1: 08 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: What is normally discussed, how people are hurting, frustrations of their spouse being in midlife crisis or themselves. Our fears, praises, it is a place for support, encouragement, information, just to know we are not alone. and on Monday, Doctor Conway joins chat for questions.

1: 09 Rosco: Well I got it all. I hurt. I am frustrated. I am afraid.

1: 10 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: We do not use real names to protect the innocent, so to say. This chat is open forum and there may be things said here that one may not want their spouse or children, friends or family to see and recognize that it is them. Kind of gives a little anonymity so we can be open about our pain, while not publically disgracing anyone else.

1: 11 Rosco: Sounds good.

1: 11 Rosco: Well. History is always good so here it goes.

1: 11 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: I will give you a little information on myself, my husband of 28 years was contacted by a woman he knew in grade school and they began an affair, I found out about it after almost a year and it was like once I knew, she started pushing for him to divorce me move to be with her.

1: 12 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - Here's a list of acronyms we use quite often. This should help you understand the conversations a little easier. w = wife / h = husband / ow = other woman / om = other man / d = daughter / s = son / dil = daughter-in-law / sil = son-in-law / mil = mother-in-law / fil = father-in-law / PTL = Praise the Lord / PG - Praise God / mlc = midlife crisis / MLD = Midlife Dimensions ministry (non-profit organization)

1: 13 Rosco: I had a mid life crisis I guess and to put it bluntly I had an affair almost four years ago. College sweetheart. She wanted attention and I was frustrated in my marriage. But had not said anything to her.

1: 13 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello Lia, how are you today, hope your Christmas is well and full of God's grace.

1: 14 Rosco: I came home from that trip and told her but it only helped in the physical department. We didn't address the issues.

1: 14 Lia: Swan I wish the same for you, I’m better than last eve when kids were gone for while, but PTL the 3 of us went to candle light service & all woke up together!

1: 15 Rosco: She thought by encouraging the affair I would grow out of it.

1: 15 Lia: Rosco welcome & thanks for having the courage to discuss this painful time

1: 16 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hey Jo - how is your Christmas going?

1: 16 Rosco: The history is worse. I got a clue but then came number two! She was a friend of the family and wanted to help me get away from number one.

1: 16 Lia: Hey Plum & jO2

1: 16 Rosco: She was the one who wanted me to get divorced. My W and I said D would never be in our vocabulary.

1: 17 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hi Plumcrazy, welcome

1: 17 Lia: Rosco Praise God you both have discussed D not being an option!

1: 17 Jo2: Swanlake - I’m waiting for my daughter-in-law to pick me up in 15 minutes. We're going to her family's Christmas dinner. They have a 'silly' gift exchange later. You may have done one of those in your life. Fun.

1: 18 Rosco: That lasted for two years and ended in a family adopting a wonder little girl.

1: 18 Lia: Jo2 sounds like fun 1: 17

1: 18 Rosco: Lia. I am divorced now. : (

1: 18 Rosco: I figured out a week after we signed papers that it was the worst mistake of my life!

1: 19 Plumcrazy: Rosco-Is this the first time you have been in our chat?

1: 20 Rosco: My W and I had always been together during three plus years of me being unfaithful. I never stopped loving her and we were working to support our four kids in all they were doing so we never talked

1: 20 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - this is a hard road to travel for the person in MLC and those who love them. I am sorry that the paths lead you to divorce, but as those here who have reconciled marriages, even after divorce, there is always a path back to reconciliation, it is just sometimes a very rough path.

1: 21 Rosco: We never got down and addressed the issues. We only worked to take care of the kids and pay the bills. She was a SAHM for 16 years. I resented that. I was only thinking of me. All it took was her moving for a job and BANG! I got it.

1: 22 Rosco: I have told her I want to work on things and she says right now she needs to find herself. I can respect that but at the same time I have anxiety issues that make that hard to do.

1: 23 Lia: Rosco God is a God of Reconciliation Jesus came to reconcile us to the Father & from the beginning, God's law says one man & woman till death so Swan is right it is hard but a piece of paper can't stop the Lord. He wants you & your wife saved & together

1: 23 Jo2: Rosco - I can't stay long because I have a prior engagement for the afternoon but I want to encourage you to keep reconciliation available as a choice in the future. There is a book you might get good info from...... continued.

1: 24 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - I don't know if this will help you, but your story is very much like mine, except that it is my husband going through crisis. There is a part of me that would love to hear from my husband, to have him want to work on us, but at the same time there is a part of me that would be afraid of being hurt again, so caution would probably play a big part.

1: 24 Lia: Rosco Do you subscribe to Charlyne cares devotionals & standing firm?

1: 25 Rosco: I want to reconcile. She wants to find out what she wants. And yes I have broken her trust so much it would be a miracle if I could regain it.

1: 25 Rosco: Lia I do not subscribe.

1: 25 Jo2: Rosco - LOVE LIFE FOR EVERY MARRIED COUPLE by Ed Wheat. Especially good are chapters 10, 14, 15, 16. Ch 15 is How to Save Your Marriage Alone and talks about how to keep your options in tune with God's options.

1: 26 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - don't worry about spelling, we all often hit a key wrong, yet somehow we manage to figure out what the other is saying. Just be yourself and share what you are comfortable with, ask us anything and we will respond the best we can.

1: 27 Lia: Rosco again Swan is right I went through an "indiscretion" 13 years ago my H had very difficult past possibly attachment & personality issues too. Definitely abandonment issues from childhood He may have started in MLC in his 30's & stalled

1: 28 Rosco: Jo2 thank you. I want to keep the HOPE alive.

1: 28 Lia: Rosco cont: Things were pretty good, but my H's jobs & business plus many hobbies took precedent so we didn't get through the real issues lots walls up too My H seemed take advantage having all he wanted & never having make up & now he's full blown

1: 28 Jo2: Rosco - There is a great devotional, written by a man whose marriage was restored. Go to www.standingfirm.net

1: 29 Rosco: Lia I would not call mine an indiscretion. I told her so many horrible things and now that my eyes are open I am lost and need to find me and find a way to serve the Lord by being the best dad I can be!

1: 30 Lia: Rosco cont: MLC It is so excruciating esp. when someone forgives & you are sure it won't happen again. 1st time I was thankful it didn't go "all the way" Now he's living with OW practically since day left prob w/ her long b4 Your W will prob be

1: 30 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - Have you read Jim's book "Men in Midlife", it is extremely helpful. There are many other books, sites, etc. that might be helpful, however, don't really want to overwhelm you by throwing a bunch of them at you today. But Jim's book is a great place to start, continue to come here, you can also arrange phone counseling with Jim.

1: 31 Jo2: Rosco - Never give up believing that God want your marriage to be restored. Your children need to have the model of reconciliation and restoration by their parents to make it in their own future.

1: 31 Lia: Rosco cont: cautious as Swan eluded to Lots hurt, but God WILL heal her & you & restore you He brought you here It's hard journey but Nothing is impossible with God

1: 32 Lia: Jo2 1: 25 that's one of the best books ever!

1: 33 Rosco: I have HOPE. I have a picture on the dresser of her. In the frame is my wedding ring and a fortune I got one night I was having a hard time "If you have HOPE. You have everything."

1: 33 Jo2: Rosco - I hope you will come to our evening chats and learn from these super standers that there is HOPE! Several of the facilitators have restored marriages. They are a great resource to all.

1: 34 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - You may have said horrible things, but as you said your eyes were closed and even though what you said and did hurt your wife, you were/are experiencing your own kind of pain and though MLC is not an excuse for what is done, once you and she understand that there are factors outside of your control, it makes it easier to forgive one another, yourselves and she will see that neither of you were 100% guilty, nor 100% innocent and then you can begin to rebuild.

1: 35 Plumcrazy: Rosco+I will have to remember that fortune I like it

1: 35 Lia: Swan & Jo2 The OW bought clothes & stupid little things from where she works for my kids gets discount plus commission. She wrote from dad & xxxxx on all their presents which my kids weren't happy about. I think it's another ploy to try take my place

1: 36 Rosco: We are friendly and in fact she and the kids just left to go to her parents. We spent the last day and a half together. Up all night wrapping presents. Literally ALL night I have had 2 hours of sleep. Tried to but my heart is full and I need support that’s how I ended up here.

1: 36 Lia: Rosco You could wear your ring & in future as God leads you explain what God is teaching you about covenant & your stand to your wife when she's ready to receive it!

1: 37 Plumcrazy: Rosco How did you find us?

1: 37 Jo2: Rosco - Well God got you started, now you keep coming back.

1: 37 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - Good, keeping pictures of our spouses, continuing to wear or keep our wedding rings close are a reminder that we do have hope and when we put it in God's hands everything is possible. I still wear my wedding rings, and there are many pictures of my husband here in my home, even though I haven't seen or heard from him in a few years. I pray for him and my heart aches for what he is going through.

1: 38 Lia: Rosco 1: 34 Swan's right those outside forces are from the enemy who wants to destroy everyone in a family & perpetuate the ugly curse of divorce

1: 38 Jo2: ALL - My ride is here and I have to go. Blessings to all on the day of all days, the celebration of the Birth of the Savior, Jesus. See you again. Bye!

1: 39 Lia: Merry Christmas Jo2

1: 39 Rosco: Thank you for your encouragement Jo2

1: 40 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - honestly with the other woman, it isn't about taking your place, it is about her trying to establish her place in their lives. It is better not to take these things personal, because as much as it may seem or we might believe, there is often nothing personal against us involved, they simply want to make a place in the man they are involved with life and if that includes children, they try to make that happen too.

1: 40 Lia: Swan My oldest came over for little while & then was going to movies alone today as of last night now seems ow her son & my H are driving over with her & going diff movie My H was sure call & tell her hurry up I think OW suggested it what kind person

1: 41 Plumcrazy: Merry Christmas Jo

1: 42 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - we are glad you found us and hope you find yourself back here as often as you need a place to come for support and to begin encouraging others when you feel you can offer them words of wisdom.

1: 42 Lia: Swan cont not only steals someone else's H but tries to play family with her kids too. That's the worst of all of this sometimes. These are MY/our kids not hers she NEVER wanted settled family life for over 40 yrs & now she wants my life ughhhh!

1: 42 Rosco: My 3rd OW and I still talk and we never wanted to get to the point of an affair but it happened. The one thing did not do was combine family. We supported and sinned. Now it is a recovery effort and she wants and supports me getting my family back

1: 43 Rosco: We know there can be no more contact at some point.

1: 43 Plumcrazy: Rosco- did you see what I asked earlier? I was wondering how you found our chat

1: 43 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - if you could please type the name of the person you are addressing at the beginning if your comment is intended for a certain person, or all if you just wanting to say something but it isn't to anyone person.

1: 44 Rosco: About four years ago I was searching for help in my MLC. and ran across the site, I have been getting e-mails ever since.

1: 44 Lia: Swan 1: 40 I know what you say makes sense, but she has him just leave my kids alone! She was very competitive with her last boyfriend's daughters, jealous of them & befriended them all she could then ow left him broken for my H & guys dtr is still friends

1: 45 Plumcrazy: Rosco-Is this the first time you have been in chat though? All the people here are great helpers

1: 46 Rosco: 1: 43 Swanlakejgs- cnrl C and cntrl V takes care of that. thanks for the guidance.

1: 46 Rosco: 1: 45 Plumcrazy - yes my first time.

1: 46 Lia: Swan cont with ow gag! I want her saved but completely out of our lives! My oldest dtr hugged her because my H bought her (dtr) a laptop for college. This woman is living high life with my H's & children's monetary future & dtr befriends her?

1: 46 Lia: Swan Guess it will never make complete sense to me!

1: 47 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - well the truth is she didn't steal what your husband wasn't willing to give her and again, she is trying to establish her place in your husband's life, children and all. This is why Jim and so many others say it is important for us to take our focus off of the other person, Jim says to think of it as they don't exist at all. We cannot make any sense out of what is going on, and trying to put everything in a box will only drive us insane.

1: 48 Rosco: 1: 46 Lia,1: 43 Swanlakejgs, take it from the guy who was using his monetary means to have an OW. When they have you by the *&%*'s you tend to do what makes them happy.

1: 48 Rosco: 1: 46 Lia,1: 43 Swanlakejgs- in a MLC as I see it makes us crazy and an unable to see what is most needed or important.

1: 48 Lia: Rosco 1: 42 Does she have family too? Regardless, if you are standing, you will need to break contact with all ow & learn to set healthy boundaries & how to protect your marriage. Rick from Affair recovery network does a lot with this & stopping

1: 49 Lia: Rosco cont relapse behaviors in future They also are Christian focus

1: 50 Plumcrazy: ALL-I have a roast in the Crockpot for dinner. H made beef curry for lunch. We have both cultures covered LOL

1: 50 Rosco: 1: 48 Lia- she was in a 22 yr marriage to an abusive alcoholic. Her S is in college and DTR is a senior and leaving this summer. She was rescued.

1: 51 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - I will second what you have said at 1: 48 - my husband has told our children that he is miserable, hates life, is angry every second of every day now, he and the other woman sleep in separate bedrooms, yet he feels like he owes her, but cannot explain exactly what it is or why he owes her and he spends whatever it takes to keep her happy.

1: 52 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - sounds very tasty - YUMM

1: 52 Rosco: 1: 51 Swanlakejgs- I have known in my heart that my W is the "ONE" but couldn't hold strong and leave the OW. Just like an alcoholic.

1: 52 Lia: Swan 1: 47 I like the box thing because that's generally how men think In some ways I think more like men sometimes I feel deeply, but don't let it lead my life my H seems live in drama constantly yet never tries really figure out how feels

1: 53 Plumcrazy: ALL-Has been a quiet day. My Mom called and H talked to her. When he got off the phone with her he asked her if she wanted her daughter back H said "No one here wants her" Mom said "Yeah , I'll take her. I ignored him

1: 54 Lia: Rosco 1: 48 That's good to hear your perspective. My H is kind of big in the image thing dept. so is his ow but she had nothing because she's gone person to person to live off them & as Swan was saying to me does all she can to invest a man & quickly

1: 55 Rosco: 1: 52 Lia: Swan 1: 47- drama seems to follow me. I don't think I like it but the OW says she sees it often.

1: 55 Plumcrazy: All_ I did dress up and put on make-up though.

1: 55 Lia: Rosco My H had Nothing when we met & we worked very hard to have a nice life Does it stroke H ego to "buy" someone’s loyalty & affection. Seems so because in here we notice H's usually "affair down" so to speak to feel more important?

1: 56 Rosco: 1: 55 Plumcrazy: sounds like he does not see what he has?

1: 56 Rosco: 1: 55 Lia define "affair down" never heard that term

1: 57 Lia: Rosco when did you start to see that someone wanted you because their own pain, dysfunction, need for money, etc.... I want our health & home when H comes home I know God will restore EVERYTHING though but I have to be willing to love him back regardless

1: 57 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - Jim actually says that the other woman is often just like a drug and the MLC'er like an addict. As much as we would like our spouses to leave the other person and even they would like to leave the other person, there is a pull that doesn't just go away. This is one reason Jim says that contact with the other person must be completely cut off or that pull will never be broken and once guard is let down will grow strong again.

1: 58 Lia: Rosco cont of the condition he comes home in Resat is up to God just like H's salvation & our restoration

1: 58 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: All - Woke up to a White Christmas here, it is beautiful.

1: 59 Plumcrazy: Rosco=It is a long story. Says he loves me but isn’t in love with me. No OW. H says he saw his dad do that and he would never do that

1: 59 Rosco: 1: 55 Lia - I never felt the need to buy love or affection. Early on in my marriage we were broke and I was selfish and wanted hobby things. My W would say that we couldn't afford the things I got her. I LOVE jewelry.

2: 00 Lia: Rosco 1: 22 God wants her marriage restored & her H healed As long as she is safe! God can still restore her marriage too. She can still stand & pray for H's salvation & their restoration. At same time she & kids need be physically safe

2: 01 Rosco: 1: 55 Lia - #2 OW demanded stuff and I wouldn't. #3 OW has never asked for a thing. In fact has done everything she can to not have me help or pay. We work same C and both do just fine. I did it just because and she gave me the reaction my W never did

2: 01 Plumcrazy: Lia-I think when you said affair down you meant he went to a lower class woman right?

2: 02 Lia: Swan Do you suppose they think OW will crumble without them & they expect us to be able to be alone. When my H started getting involved with someone long ago, even though he fought & got out b4 it came to worst point, he said he felt bad for her because

2: 03 Lia: Swan cont I had him & she would be alone Funny thing is that woman had recently broken up with HS sweetheart after that they got back together, married & have child.

2: 04 Plumcrazy: Swan-what do you think of the comment H made? I ignored it but it still bothers me. guess since I am feeling down it got to me more

2: 05 Lia: Plum sorry : ( @ 1: 53 way to go not letting him push buttons!

2: 07 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - I don't know about crumble, or that these woman could be considered less than us. Typically many of the other persons are needy and that allows our spouses to be the rescuer. Sadly in marriage we become too comfortable with one another and begin to take each other for granted, they come across someone who needs them or simply someone who is in their lives daily, that they have things in common with and one lunch becomes daily, then dinner, then they begin to open up with each other on a personal level and there isn't all the baggage of home life, being tired, bogged down with the stresses of marriage, etc. and infatuation beings, turning into an affair, and so...

2: 07 Lia: Rosco 1: 56 affair down means someone who hasn't lead an exemplary life, maybe, runs around, alcohol drug issues, much lower social, educational, financial status & most importantly very LOW moral code At least that's how I see it

2: 08 Plumcrazy: Lia==He made a couple of other comments today I thought werent appropriate for the day. I think he was testing me especially since what day it is. He said feelings/spirit is for losers. and another similar comment

2: 08 Rosco: 2: 04 Plumcrazy - I was horrible and told my W that she didn't measure up to the Other Women. How wrong I have been. After 19 would have been 20 years last week. I and my 16yr dtr are living together. and W and 2 smaller kids are 200 miles away. I am mom and dad.

2: 09 Lia: Rosco It is so good you are here God has been working this day for long time & you are helping others too. Swan's right that you are confirming so much we have heard about H's affairs & OP It helps us feel it's not personal!

2: 09 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - to be honest, don't take it seriously, I would guess he thinks he was being funny and there is nothing more to it.

2: 10 Lia: Plum 2: 01 yep

2: 11 Plumcrazy: Rosco--H and I have been married 21 yrs D15 and S 11, Together 22 yrs. this started in March 2009. Got bad after he took something I said the wrong way and turned into Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

2: 11 Rosco: 2: 07 Swanlakejgs AMEN! that’s exactly how OW #3 happened. OW and I have discussed it at length to help me work on my rebuilding with my W so that I don't make more mistakes and lose sight of how wonderful my W is.

2: 11 Lia: Rosco It prob felt like your wife didn't give you same reaction but remember in affairs there is newness mystery, the unknown & forbidden, NO RESPONSIBILITIES, that was all part of the trap & the lies satan uses. My H never lavished me like does ow, esp with time & attention which is what I so needed My H was never denied anything he wanted even lots freedom If I followed H around like ow does he'd been gone long ago it's kind of pathetic sometimes like you said a drug addiction

2: 13 Plumcrazy: Rosco=did you ever tell your W "I love you but I am not in love with you?"

2: 13 Rosco: Lia, This year for Christmas I "lavished" as you put it my W and we discussed that it was not out of guilt. It was out of love. She cautioned me that right now she can't give me the emotion or attention I would want. I got four hugs in the last day and I cherish hugs from her now. I can’t ask for them I have to wait for her to GIVE them. I miss her every day I wake up in the nightmare

2: 15 Lia: Swan 2: 07 So why is that neediness & being rescuer so attractive. My H expected me to always be able to function independently Too much so, I hated being alone sooooo much. I wasn't allowed to ever need H for anything really

2: 15 Plumcrazy: ALL-Working on biting my tongue today.

2: 16 Lia: Plum 2: 08 He's pushing trying test you for new sort reaction listen for sparks of truth

2: 16 Rosco: 2: 15 Plumcrazy: rather than bit. praise? Is H really that negative?

2: 17 Rosco: 2: 13 Plumcrazy: Rosco=did you ever tell your W "I love you but I am not in love with you?" Sure I remember the day and the look on her face. I will regret it for the rest of my life.

2: 18 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Rosco - I know as the person being left emotionally or physically, it becomes very easy to blame the other person and think horrible things about them, but the truth is they are often NOT an evil person who set out to destroy others. And as one who is the person who was left, I can tell you that as long as I saw the other women my husband was involved with in that manner, bitterness was a big part of my life and I was very unhappy, no peace and the hurt was always right there on the edge. But once I stopped looking with bitter eyes and accepted that they are God's children too, that they have hurts in their lives and didn't think about what it might to do me and our children, their families, etc. I have been able to forgive and God has granted me a peace beyond words. I pray for the other woman with my husband, I have even cried for her, not because of her but for her. I don't really want to be friends, but I want her to have a blessed life, the life God has intended for her and I know that I know that I know, it isn't with my husband.

2: 18 Plumcrazy: Rosco-Yes he is. He has seemed to get better in last couple of weeks though. I have given him lots of praise during that time though. H is SEVERELY depressed but won’t get help. Last yr at this time he was talking suicide. So at least this yr is a lot better

2: 18 Lia: Rosco 2: 13 PTL for those hugs My H is still in the very angry, hateful phase of this. He barely can say hello when I answer the phone the kinder I remain, the meaner he is. He sometimes brags to others about how treats me & does all can to discredit my life.

2: 19 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - because during MLC, they begin to see their lives as incomplete, unsuccessful and I don't care who you are or what it is a person, animal, etc. helping others, rescuing feels good.

2: 20 Lia: Rosco, make sure you speak your wife's love language & not yours! The love languages book is good So is Love & Respect & Cracking the Communication code! # 1 book of course the BIBLE!!!!!!! God puts it all there!

2: 21 Rosco: 2: 20 Lia I am still needing to go figure out the language part.

2: 21 Plumcrazy: Yoli-HOW ARE YOU?!!!! SO GLAD YOU ARE HERE

2: 22 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - also there is a big difference between being dependant, being independent and being interdependent, unfortunately we usually go from dependant to independent and never consider interdependence. For now, the dependence is fulfilling a need they have and until it becomes a burden, it is what makes him feel useful in life.

2: 23 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hey Yoli, welcome

2: 23 Yoli: Plumcrazy: Hey, how are you? I just wanted to check to see who was on.

2: 23 Lia: Swan 2: 18 AMEN, AMEN, AMEN to that end point esp. It is amazing we can cry for them & condition of their souls I pray the ow's marriage is restored too. Her child doesn't remember a mom & dad & ow wants it no matter what our kids feel sad : (

2: 24 Yoli: Swanlake: Hey, how are you? I hope you got a break from last night.

2: 24 Rosco: 2: 22 Swanlakejgs - with time comes the fact we don't see as clearly what the other is doing to grow the relationship. We stagnated.

2: 25 Lia: Swan 2: 22 Are you saying that H's & others just haven't gotten to point of interdependence sort of like they are swinging from extreme of independence to dependence & they have swing back to interdependence in middle? & dependence is comforting now?

2: 26 Plumcrazy: ALL_OOP left fudge out and it got gooey had to stick it in the freezer

2: 27 Plumcrazy: Yoli-I am ok Feeling kind a down though. Missing my family back home Haven’t seen them in 3 yrs

2: 27 Yoli: Swanlake: Did you have a good Christmas?

2: 28 Plumcrazy: Swan --My Mom is in KS said they got 8 in of snow. Did you get any?

2: 28 Yoli: Plumcrazy: I'm sorry about that. Where is home? Northeastern US? They haven't gone to visit you? I’m one to talk. I don't go home much either. It's just too far a drive. My parents came to older daughter's graduation last weekend. They made me

2: 29 Lia: Swan cont from 2: 25 My H was abandoned age 16 He had already been bounced around a lot. he raised self a lot. He admitted my families stability was what he wanted now OW has few responsibilities & lots fun like when teens yet she has time need to do

2: 29 Plumcrazy: Yoli-my parents are living on social security can’t afford to travel

2: 29 Yoli: Plum: cont-cry. They didn't mean to. They just kept telling me to forget about my husband cause there's nothing I can do. They told me to go with daughters to visit them. When I told mom that it was too hard for me to go back, she asked if it wasn't

2: 29 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - what I am saying is most people don't find interdependence at all, they go from dependence to independence, period the end. When a relationship first begins what is dependence doesn't seem like it, it is "new love" and the endorphins run high creating that warm happy feeling that gets confused with love and respect. After time, it becomes burdensome and it is usually at that time people begin to feel smothered, demanding "space", which quickly becomes independence. Any relationship will die if this is the case. It is when interdependence is achieved that the relationship grows and thrives.

2: 30 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli - I am having a wonder white Christmas, stress free and here with great friends.

2: 30 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - we did, about five inches

2: 30 Yoli: Plum: cont-sad staying home by myself. I think the way my h handled daughter's graduation made me so emotional. We should have been attending and celebrating this milestone in her life together. Instead, he took girlfriend. Makes daughters choose.

2: 31 Lia: Swan cont to cling to H @ all cost, so that obsessive, adolescent attachment is comforting? Could my H have seriously needed me to be independent & let have freedom when we were young & relied on my emotional stability because needed that then & now wants

2: 31 Lia: Swan cont smothering instead?

2: 31 Lia: Yoli Any chance going see family in future?

2: 32 Yoli: Swanlake: Good. I’m glad. I guess I missed seeing snow. It was so pretty when it snowed here a few weeks ago. There were some big snowflakes. I wanted to call my husband and talk. Oh well.

2: 32 Plumcrazy: ALL_ I love you Ladies and glad to meet you Rosco. nice to have the view on a man going thru MLC. Jim has gone thru it too and it is always nice to hear what someone who has gone thru it thinks

2: 32 Lia: Yoli how was the party?

2: 33 Yoli: Lia: You mean my family? I doubt it. We almost went this morning. My sister asked me to surprise our parents. Daughters got into argument about going. They wanted to leave last night. I wanted to wait until this morning. It seems that dad had ordered them to his house yet for one more dinner. He's been doing this a lot. It doesn't really matter what I’m doing. I wanted them to go to church with me last night but I ended up going by myself. The Lone Ranger yet again.

2: 35 Plumcrazy: Yoli-Is your phone number on the info Hannah gathered? I would love to talk to you on the phone

2: 35 Lia: Swan : ( that's exactly what happened with H @ least He's very extreme sort of person I was fortunate to grow up in strong yet supportive loving family. We all function well alone, but are very close as well. My H was dependent on me & I wasn't really

2: 36 Yoli: Lia: Thanks for asking about party. Her party was kind of sad. Few people but then it was 1 week before Christmas. Lots of her friends were also graduating over 3 different ceremonies. Daughter said she was glad to see my parents.

2: 37 Yoli: Plum: Yes both numbers are listed. It's easier to get me on my cell though. It's hard to talk with daughters around. I’m usually around.

2: 37 Lia: Swan cont allowed to need him for anything. I know it's circumstances, but it "seems" like OW does lots things H does. Things I wasn't suppose to do because he expected me be the wife & mom role forever not the girlfriend so to speak. Maybe H & ow are

2: 37 Plumcrazy: Yoli+ok I will try your cell Will you be around tomorrow?

2: 39 Plumcrazy: All_ Anyone going shopping tomorrow?

2: 39 Lia: Swan too dependent It seems so, I know God will use that esp. to grow me while they unravel! Then we can be healed & even more stable after H's hit bottom & have start on healing journey instead of on journey to sin & pain

2: 39 Yoli: Lia: I can totally relate to how you feel about OW being around and doing things with your h. I've been upset that h can't seem to go anywhere or do anything without her being attached. He even took her to graduation ceremony even though he was

2: 40 Yoli: Lia: cont-told not to. Over the past week, I've had to ask myself several times as I cry my eyes out, what am I doing? As you said I know it's all circumstances but it gets to me. I feel helpless.

2: 40 Lia: Swan what are some ways to invest our H's more & help them be more interdependent? Hard question I’m sure but if anything comes to mind on subject

2: 40 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - oh yeck yes, I earned 35 dollars in Kohl's dollars during Christmas shopping for my daughter and you bet your bippy I am getting my rebate, have to use immediately, but I am not giving it up.

2: 41 Rosco: All- I need a nap and feel a lot better talking with you. Thank you so much for all you have said. I copied down the book and link so I will check them out later. I have next week off so I will have time.

2: 41 Lia: Yoli 2: 32 What do you think H would do if you just called to talk about something like the snow & how pretty it was? 2: 32

2: 41 Yoli: Plum: I think I’m taking younger daughter to begin looking for some more winter clothes. She's freezing up in New York. We are just not used to it being that cold continuously.

2: 42 Plumcrazy: Rosco_take care Was nice to meet and talk to you

2: 42 Lia: Yoli 2: 34 I am so sorry, that must have been really hard. I pray you enjoyed the service any how!

2: 42 Rosco: 2: 42 Plumcrazy Thank you. I will be back!

2: 42 Yoli: Lia: I don't think he would answer his phone. See there was drama about daughter's party. It was going to be at house. He refused to attend. didn't think it was good place for him. so I changed it to restaurant. I called him. He sounded as if he had

2: 43 Lia: Yoli 2: 36 Glad dtr had blessing of seeing her grandparents!

2: 44 Yoli: Lia: cont-just woken up, it was Sunday afternoon. I told him this was about daughter not him or I. I wanted her to have fun and felt she would want her family together to celebrate. He offered money. He said he would let me know what he was going to

2: 45 Lia: Plum 2: 39 Love to get deals on decorations & gift bags/tissue paper etc.... But I’m broke for now! God will provide though Just few fuel bills & such to catch up on! God says I won't beg for bread though, none of us will! PTL

2: 45 Yoli: Lia: cont-do. I called him back on Monday and he didn't answer his phone. He avoided me like the plague on Friday. Bottom line is that he does not want to talk to me. Michelle is always with him. I need to just deal with it.

2: 45 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - I used to use a couple of referenced when I facilitated for the Marine Corps on interdependence, I will have to look through my materials and will get back to you on that. But mostly it is important to understand that you can only be responsible for your interdependence. The best way to encourage interdependence in others is to demonstrate trust, unconditional love, while being honest about your own expectations, desires, etc. at the same time allowing them to have their own and not trying to make theirs the same as yours or bending yours to become as theirs. I guess the best way to say what interdependence is, it is being together completely while being separate people.

2: 46 Lia: Yoli 2: 40 I understand! It's very hard. Been where you are luv ya!

2: 46 Lia: Rosco, You still there?

2: 47 Lia: Swan 2: 40 thanks for reminder I have $120 Kohl cash dollars to decorate my feet & keep them warm with PTL!!!!!!! I can use some new shoes!

2: 47 Yoli: Lia: What was funny about daughter is that she spent very little time with my parents. She was in town on Friday night because dad celebrated with her. She was with them on Saturday for about 4 hours. My mom would ask me what was wrong with her.

2: 47 Yoli: Lia: Is this what your h did or is doing?

2: 48 Lia: Rosco Nice meeting you here in Cyber space. Please come join us again! God Bless!

2: 49 Yoli: Lia: Yeah older daughter has stayed with dad not just during Thanksgiving but also since she came in to town for Christmas. Then younger daughter got into the act last night. I automatically become martyr or feel sorry for myself if I say anything.

2: 49 Plumcrazy: ALL-Rosco seems nice

2: 50 Lia: Swan 2: 45 Thanks that's sounds good. If you find anything more like you suggested, could you email it to me? : )

2: 50 Plumcrazy: Yoli-I think the girls just want to spend time with Dad. I know it is hard not to take it personally though

2: 52 Yoli: Plum: Oh I know that's exactly what they want. I just keep remembering what older daughter told me about having to have 2 different celebrations for the holidays as she cried her eyes out. Well I think I’m crying for them.

2: 52 Lia: Yoli 2: 47 being cruel & cold? Yes & alienating children Yes to that too. My H is only nice when he wants something. I am convinced he has narcissistic personality or many traits of it. There is lots of filling in gap with people who have been hurt

2: 54 Lia: Yoli cont & damaged as kids & end up with developmental delay or arrested development. Helping them grow emotionally is very difficult but with God NOTHING is impossible!!!!! My H has stuffed a lot hurt down long time most his life poor examples too

2: 54 Yoli: Lia: Yeah, I feel as though h is pretending to have a wonderful little family, always daughters around him or at parties because they are so pretty, but he's putting Michelle as the mother, and she's not. I think I told him that.

2: 56 Plumcrazy: ALL_I feel guilty I haven’t done anything all day since I baked a pie and put the roast in the Crockpot this morning

2: 56 Yoli: Lia: Yeah if it weren't for God and my praying, I would be worse off. It's not that I doubt God's amazing power, it's this journey. It's so very ugly.

2: 56 Lia: Yoli 2: 49 that's pretty close to my situation. I had hear how dtr hugged ow last night for gift my H bought for dtr. I about gagged. But I remember if our H's are sooo hurt, lost, blind & in pain, so are our kids God must be planning huge work through

2: 57 Yoli: Plum: I wasn't sure what we were going to do. I still baked turkey, made the dressing, mashed potatoes and giblet gravy. Boy it was good.

2: 57 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - one book that I can think of right off hand that gives great information on interdependence is - Steven Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change

2: 58 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - so your gift to yourself today is "rest", enjoy it, it is a true gift and should never be taken for granted.

2: 58 Lia: Yoli cont us while choosing to use us to stand in gap for our H's & kids. He says when we call we will be saved, us & our entire household AMEN & that will lead to restoration too. God will be glorified in all this I know it's hard though, so does He

2: 58 Plumcrazy: Yoli_ YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL!!!!! don’t h's past comments affect you now. I know it is hard after hearing his comments over the yrs. I’ve been thru it too. H always says the kids got their looks from him

3: 00 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - well as long as they get their kind godly heart from you, who cares who they got their looks from!

3: 00 Lia: Yoli 2: 54 Yeah they are pretty messed up. Swan said earlier they don't see it that way though. I would have been every name in book if I did 1/100th to H what he's done & if I left him & kids & found someone, I would have been a *@!$%^&*()_=-

3: 00 Plumcrazy: Swan_ I have been so tired working with this autistic child I see wrinkle around and under my eyes EEEEK where did they come from. Also bags and dark circles under my eyes

3: 01 Yoli: Plum: It wasn't so much comments, it was the lack of comments. I never heard anything positive from him. I know that we are all beautiful in God's eyes, I just wish I had known that like I do know. He never said anything positive to girls either.

3: 01 Lia: Swan 2: 57 Good, Haven't read that one, but my dtr might have & may be copy here Thanks!

3: 02 Yoli: Plum: Apparently my h tells people that the girls are pretty and smart because of him. I think he has convinced himself of that. Because he seems to be rewriting history, I never existed. That's how he acts.

3: 02 Plumcrazy: Yoli-Sounds familiar

3: 03 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: The training isn't Christian, but it is still very good.

3: 03 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: 3: 03 is for Lia

3: 03 Yoli: Lia: Exactly. I would like to say this that you mentioned in 3: 00 to my husband. How would things be if the tables were turned?

3: 04 Lia: Yoli 3: 02 Sucks doesn't it. My H seems forgotten I gave birth to our kids, that I ever lived or he chose me. I know how painful that one is too! Someday soon this will all change & God will grab hold all them & open their eyes & they’ll see lies

3: 04 Yoli: Plum: Where do you work with autistic children? I'll tell you why. I really do think my husband has Aspberger's.

3: 05 Plumcrazy: Yoli-Elementary school

3: 05 Lia: Yoli cont They will see the lies & feel lots pain but more importantly they will come to cross & be saved & healed & God will make them new & they will see the beautiful, godly woman in us that God is giving back to them!

3: 05 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - internally your husband is so bankrupt that he needs to try to refill his confidence bank with that type of garbage, it is a stroke for his ego and people who need their egos boosted actually have low self-esteems and try to compensate by boasting about themselves.

3: 05 Plumcrazy: Yoli-why do you think that?

3: 05 Lia: Swan 3: 03 got it!

3: 06 Yoli: Lia: Okay, so it' s not just me then. He truly acts as if I never existed at all. Sometimes I get angry because I’m not a single parent.

3: 07 Lia: Yoli 3: 03 It would be UGLY if tables were turned My h has lied a lot & some times is ruthless because the deception satan has under & acts like I hurt him in all this! It's all from the great deceiver, but God hears our prayers & will set them free, save

3: 07 Lia: Yoli cont & restore too!

3: 07 Yoli: Swanlake: You've hit the nail on the head about my husband. Right now, he's living the high life. Money is no object due to his promotions. His family came to spend Thanksgiving with him at his mansion. He's had one dinner party after another. He need

3: 07 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - fudge! what kind and do you need my address? LOL. I do not have the patience to make it, but do love it in small doses.

3: 08 Yoli: Swanlake: cont-the stroking. He needs people telling how wonderful he is. We'll overlook how messed up his personal life is.

3: 08 Plumcrazy: yumm fudge from MOM

3: 09 Yoli: Lia: Thank you. You're an amazingly upbeat and Christian woman. I needed to hear or read what you are saying. Thanks again.

3: 10 Lia: Yoli 3: 06 that's because we now have chance to take time left with our kids & allow God help us start relearn new better habits, heal & be victorious with kids, satan knows it . Our H's aren't really in place to parent well, but they are kids dads pray

3: 10 Plumcrazy: Swan-Milk chocolate. I have never made it either

3: 10 Yoli: Plum: It's a long story. Since I’m a speech pathologist, I test and diagnose students all the time. Let me just say that all of the students that I've ever said were on the spectrum are, and those that are not, have not been identified.

3: 10 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli - men tend to put their worth in what they have rather than who they are morally. The bigger the toys, they think they are successful, they honestly seem to think they can buy respect and admiration. They can, but it is only temporal and will fade.

3: 11 Lia: Yoli God's protection, wisdom, armor, blood of Christ, discernment, open eyes, ears, hearts of flesh, pure & upright over Children!

3: 12 Yoli: Swanlake: Well yeah. Keep telling me more. This is exactly what's going on. He's trying to force or buy respect from his coworkers, subordinates, but more importantly his daughters. Of course his siblings also pump up that ego.

3: 12 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - there is a park in California - Knott's Berry Farm and they have this fudge called Tiger's Milk fudge and it is soooooo good, it is white chocolate caramel with a peanut butter ribbon (no real tigers milk).

3: 12 Lia: Swan I'll send you some peanut butter & choc if you'd like I’m going to try white peppermint fudge too soon!

3: 12 Plumcrazy: Yoli-Ok you are familiar with it then. How about CAPD? I think my D may have that

3: 13 Lia: Yoli 3: 09 you are so sweet thank you. It helps me too! You guys are a beautiful bunch of women! Luv ya all!

3: 13 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - thank you, but I have several places around here that I can get some of the best fudge made. It is one nice thing about living in a tourist area that specializes in "homemade" stuff.

3: 14 Yoli: Plum: See I don't believe in CAPD at all. I think it's a fad that someone came up with. I really think CAPD is more of a processing deficit. See here in the state where I lvie, we look at processing deficits rather than a discrepancy model to

3: 14 Yoli: Plum: cont-determine whether a learning disability exists. Sorry.

3: 14 Lia: Plum & Swan don't mess with ice water & soft ball stuff go to kitchen store & get good candy thermometer. I make toffee with choc & pecans pretty easy, but cashew brittle takes lots time & patience!

3: 16 Yoli: Lia: You guys are hard core candy makers. I make the kind that is easy. We make it on top of the stove with no soft ball stage at all. Just use the microwave.

3: 16 Lia: Swan 3: 10 well darlin you are hitting lots nails on head tonight as usual! Does that include having OW too It seems so like it's a status symbol I can have what I want & do what I want no matter what! My H ow is big on things I wasn't & can't be

3: 16 Plumcrazy: Yoli-I know there are two theories on it but I take it to be a processing deficit the other is anxiety based though right?

3: 17 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli - and the people he is buying now will be there until he stopping buying them or he cannot keep up with their growing expectations of what he should be giving them. That is a human characteristic, when given a little, we want more and more and more. It will not be long before they want more than he can or is willing to give and then those relationships begin to break down.

3: 18 BlueSky: Hi Swan, Lia, Plum, and Yoli, I need a pep talk. I just had a huge meltdown.

3: 18 Lia: Swan cont bought & H knows that. I am & was more impressed by his loyalty & honesty in past, how he wanted achieve through hard work, & adored our kids. Money & drama & things don't do much unfortunately that's easy way H to try give it's surface

3: 18 Yoli: Plum: I don't know about the second theory. I just know that of all the kids that I test, and believe me it's a lot, there have never been any that have been identified as having CAPD. Plus it can only be identified by an audiologist with ENT input

3: 18 Plumcrazy: BlueSky--What happened

3: 19 Plumcrazy: blue

3: 19 Plumcrazy: Bluesky_ Meltdowns happen to the best of us]

3: 20 Yoli: Swanlake: Even with the OW? She's losing her job on the 31st. Don't know if she has found another job. Yeah it's like these people want to touch him because he's the golden haired boy right now. He seems to have taken on the role well. He likes to

3: 20 BlueSky: all, my h came over for a couple of hours and it was tense. He was uncomfortable and I just fell apart when he left.

3: 20 Lia: Yoli 3: 10 That is exactly how my H & ow work, esp with kids. But my kids know this is home & they don't really want be bought they want one Christmas with both parents regardless stuff. Eventually people resent feeling used or bought Swan's right

3: 20 Yoli: Swanlake: cont-bark orders. I saw this at younger daughter’s dinner. Even though he avoided me as much as possible, he began to bark orders at me.

3: 21 Plumcrazy: Bluesky_sorry you had to go thru that

3: 21 BlueSky: all, my kids have been talking to ever since and they are incredible. They give the same advice as everyone here. My grown son doesn't think I have made any progress emotionally

3: 21 Lia: Swan 3: 13 lucky gal!

3: 21 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - sometimes the other person is about status, but always about ego and just think back to when you began a new relationship there is always that courting period, even in same sex friendships, that period of time when neither of you are irritated by the differences, in fact appreciate those things, but unless that relationship has properly grown, those little things that were cute and made the other person special are now extremely annoying and create strife. It is during the beginning of a relationship that ego needs are met, but after awhile that turns.

3: 21 Lia: Yoli know anything about NLD?

3: 22 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: BlueSky - talk to us girl, we are here to encourage and listen and support you.

3: 22 BlueSky: all, and maybe I haven't. They both want me to move forward and take care of myself, and I am still hung up on why h is doing this.

3: 23 Lia: Blue sky 3: 18 what's wrong darling?

3: 23 BlueSky: Swan, thanks I will. I thought I had been so strong lately. I think I lost all my progress in one meltdown today.

3: 23 Plumcrazy: Bluesky-Did you have meltdown after H left?

3: 23 Yoli: Plum: Not sure what this stands for. Sorry.

3: 24 BlueSky: Plum, yes, after

3: 24 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli - yes even with the other woman, in fact her lack of job will increase her financial need for him and that will bring stress, he will begin to feel taken advantage of, etc. Remember these things are sometimes slow, but I don't care what pit you are in, it has a bottom and at some point the spiral down will include hitting the rock hard surface of the bottom.

3: 25 Plumcrazy: Yoli_ I was just making typos LOL

3: 25 Lia: Yoli 3: 20 My H started do that from behind me @ son's sporting event recently I ignored it pretended didn't hear it & he stopped immediately! No allowing H to push your buttons!

3: 26 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: BlueSky - that is why they care called meltdowns and NO ONE is exempt, we are human and it happens, don't beat yourself up, instead pick yourself up, dust off you bum, and look at damage control/repair.

3: 26 Plumcrazy: Blue-Then don’t feel bad you are entitled to these times and you didn’t attack or break down in front of H you did GREAT Quit beating yourself up

3: 26 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - you know there is a $1.00 fine for every typo!!

3: 27 Plumcrazy: SWAN_Then I will be bankrupt

3: 27 Yoli: Plum: So there isn't anything by that has those initials? Wow, that's good.

3: 28 BlueSky: all, I am just so tired of this, I am in the mood of wanting to give up. I am tired of the pain.

3: 28 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - no, that is when you give it to God, He doesn't know what bankrupt is and will provide all of our needs

3: 28 Lia: Swan That's what I saw happen with a friend who had a strong personality. She cried a lot about not having close friendships & how real & down to earth I am & pulls away when she isn't in control of how things go that interdependent thing again!

3: 29 Yoli: Lia: Yeah I just ignored him. I told him that waiters would take care of food for every single table. He wanted me to take the plates of food over to the table next to him. He just looked at me. I doubt Michelle is dutiful.

3: 29 Plumcrazy: Swan-I meant if I have to pay $! for every typo I can’t type accurately if I don’t look at the keys

3: 30 Lia: Swan 3: 21 I notice My H tries justify affair with his employees even by bragging about ow & how much she makes & helps with bills (all lies too) she works @ retail store only seasonal business. He brags she teaches kayaking Don't think he bragged

3: 30 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - behavior like that is far from interdependent, it isn't even independent, it is selfish and reminds me of a spoiled child to picks up his ball in the middle of the same because he isn't getting his way.

3: 31 Yoli: Swanlake: So do you think they really think about us during holidays and/or birthdays. My husband turned 50 on Tuesday. I sent him a singing e-card. I uploaded a picture of him. Cropped it so that only his face was on caricatures body. The caricature

3: 31 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - I know, and you need to not worry about typo's - see provided!! I am feeling a little silly

3: 31 Lia: Swan cont bragged about me teaching Pilates, beginners or advanced life support though because we had been married forever, so makes sense that inflated ego stroking thing. Do MLCers brag often about all their adventures on day to day basis or just mine?

3: 32 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - Max Lucado says in his new book "Fearless" that justification is not of Christ, it is from the enemy because God deals only in honest simple truth.

3: 32 Yoli: Swanlake: cont-looked like Elvis. It danced while music played in the background. It was really cute and funny. See his father thought he was Elvis. Even grew the pork chop sideburns. I always kidded husband that he was lucky he name wasn't Elvis.

3: 33 Plumcrazy: Swan_ have you been hitting the EGGNOG?

3: 33 Yoli: Swanlake: cont-Do you think he saw it? Do you think he knew why I chose this caricature? See this is the kind of information that only I would know. I’m the one that met his parents.

3: 34 Lia: Swan 3: 24 Thanks for response to Yoli I need hear that. The OW's kid actually held his hand out one day when my H was giving money to our son. WOW I thought really?

3: 34 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - they all pretty much brag, it is like a bunch of sluggards standing around the water cooler at work, talking about how great they are, what they have done, etc. meanwhile, they are talking and not doing their job.

3: 35 BlueSky: all, my son and daughter believe this is happening because both my h and myself lost ourselves in our marriage. That we weren't independent enough.

3: 35 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli - there have been several who have returned home and they all say they did, so I am going to say that I do believe they think of us.

3: 36 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - actually don't like eggnog, I am drinking in the love and grace of God, it is a natural high!

3: 36 Yoli: Swanlake: So even though he didn't respond when I asked him in a text, I have to believe that he did see it and liked it. Believe me, it was really cute.

3: 37 Plumcrazy: Swan_I was only TEASING honestly!

3: 38 Lia: Swan 3: 30 Sums up what I've dealt with a lot, but I’m learning to walk away from those tantrums & eventually, my dtr, H & a friend & my youngest sister will learn that they can't cross my boundaries. Maybe others will enjoy them but I don't!

3: 38 Yoli: BlueSky: But that's what a husband and wife are supposed to do in a marriage? You know I read a really good book that is intended for men. If I had a son, I would make sure that he read it. It basically talks about a man's responsibility to his

3: 38 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli - if he saw it, he might not get it right away, but there will be a time of clarity and it will hit him and he will smile to himself a little before he heads back into his MLC fog.

3: 38 Lia: Swan what is that book about in general? 3: 32

3: 39 Yoli: BlueSky: cont-wife and family. It talks about why men should never ever under any circumstances walk away from their family. Divorce is not an option. I don't know if I can mention the name of the book on chat. It is a Christian book.

3: 39 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy – girl, for your chat name you are way too serious and life is far to short for that, love, laugh and live!

3: 40 Plumcrazy: SWAN ---At the time I chose this name that is how I felt I was going to end up Plum crazy

3: 40 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - about living your life without fear through God

3: 40 Yoli: Swanlake: I like your response to Plum at 3: 39. Yes life is too short, we do need to love, laugh and live. I so want my husband to be there for the rest of my life.

3: 41 Yoli: Lia: Which book are you talking about? Just curious.

3: 41 Lia: Swan 3: 34 prob is my H is boss & people joke about him now & that makes me sad. People always respected him before. He is very charming in front most people, different with me & now employees, partner & some old friends. I am praying God restores

3: 42 Lia: Swan cont lost respect. He will I know this in time it will happen

3: 42 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli - your life is far from over, I would even guess it is far from near the end, so there is time for your husband to come out of his fog and catch up to you on the path to the rest of your lives together.

3: 42 Plumcrazy: Swan@3: 39---I wish H COULD get that

3: 42 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello steadfast, how are you tonight

3: 43 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli - Max Lucado's new book "Fearless", I just finished reading it and it is an awesome book.

3: 43 Plumcrazy: Hello Steadfast

3: 43 BlueSky: Yoli, that is how I feel too. I just kept telling kids they don't understand because they aren't married. S-21, D-17.

3: 43 Yoli: Plum: The book I mentioned to BlueSky is really good. I think every man should read it. If you still talk to your husband. It's a really good book.

3: 44 Lia: Blue Sky 3: 35 we had long conversation earlier here about independence vs dependence & interdependence. Living too independently without intersecting lives isn't good either neither is being too dependent. We have to totally depend on God not people!

3: 44 BlueSky: Yoli, I think you can mention the book, is "wild" in the title?

3: 44 steadfast: Swan: Doing better. Will find out more about the cost for bodywork on the car (accident--son driving) on Monday and an Tues. the insurance agent will be back and let me know the increase to the insurance. Car is a 2000. Don't want it to be a "write

3: 45 BlueSky: LIa, my kids say I was to dependent on h. And I would have to agree with it.

3: 45 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: BlueSky - actually you were maybe too independent, tell your kids to study interdependence and them come back and talk to you.

3: 45 Yoli: BlueSky: Yeah they just don't understand. No, the book is The Point Man by Steve Farrar. It's so good. I even sent an email to Steve Farrar and he responded to me. He has a men's ministry and he focuses on teaching men and empowering them to be

3: 45 Lia: Swan 3: 40 sounds good I like Max Lucado

3: 46 Plumcrazy: Swan-Yoli can mention the title of the book right?

3: 46 BlueSky: Lia, I was trying to go back and read it, but it will take me awhile.

3: 46 Yoli: BlueSky: cont-the men that God intended for them to be.

3: 46 Lia: Blue Sky you can write the name of book for sure 3: 39

3: 46 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli - actually no response if often acceptance in MLC, because they are very quick to voice what they don't like and since they don't want to give us false hope ignore what they like or find funny, cute. etc.

3: 46 steadfast: off" --can't afford another car and with all the legal expenses upcoming with h as legal proceedings should get underway. Already had to put out a $200.00 retainer and just paid legal bill for another $1100.00 and already paid out $7000.00 previous

3: 46 Lia: Yoli 3: 41 Swan mentioned Fearless by Max Lucado

3: 47 Plumcrazy: Yoli-Thank you for the info

3: 47 steadfast: Swan /all please pray for me as I get the verdict on the car Mon and Tues

3: 47 Lia: Yoli 3: 42 from Swan Amen to that in complete agreement

3: 47 Plumcrazy: Steadfast-consider it done

3: 48 Yoli: Plum: Seriously, if I had a son, I would make sure that they would read this book. It's really good and bible based.

3: 48 BlueSky: all, you can see the unhappiness on h's face. Why don't they want to do anything to make it better. Oh, my h does not have ow, but does live by himself.

3: 48 Lia: Yoli & Plum & Blue what's the book? 3: 43 Wild @ Heart?

3: 48 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - yes, we can mention public names, books, websites, etc.

3: 48 steadfast: Swan: Excuse me. the retainer is $2500.00 not $200.00

3: 48 BlueSky: Swan, I guess I will have to go look up that definition myself and read the first half hour of chat.

3: 49 Yoli: Swanlake:  Yeah that's what I thought. He doesn't want to give any kind of positive response because I will read too much into it. That's okay.

3: 49 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - will do

3: 50 Yoli: steadfast: I'm so sorry that you're having to go through this. I really think looking back, that if I had known that hiring an attorney would have been a futile attempt at contesting husband's divorce, I wouldn't have spent the money that I didn't have

3: 50 BlueSky: Yoli, my son says not to send anything to h with "God" in it, even though he went to church with us yesterday and goes occasionally. I struggle with that, that he believes but is not relying on God.

3: 50 Lia: Blue from Swan that's probably very true My H actually said I didn't need anyone, yet he married me because I was capable & very emotionally mature @ young age. When I did ask for help or an ear, I was told No outright I wasn't allowed by H need anyone

3: 50 Yoli: Steadfast: cont-It was extremely costly.

3: 51 steadfast: Swan/all: Putting that all aside. I had a nice Christmas day with my s who is home from university , went to Christmas eve service last night and then watched movie with s before bed. That's a plus that my s and self did this compared to how things

3: 51 steadfast: Swan: were a year ago with him. I still have my challenges with him but things are improving somewhat PTL

3: 52 Yoli: BlueSky: You mean that is based on anything to do with God? Or that has God in the title? Maybe if you buy the book and have your son read it first, he can help you decide if you should have your husband read it.

3: 52 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - that is great that things are improving with son.

3: 52 Lia: Swan I have friend who said I should get dog collar, leash & toys from kids to their dad for his new dog (their baby) the dog is very spoiled already & doesn't need them She thought it would be good inside joke & good laugh because ow has tight leash on

3: 52 BlueSky: Yoli, I mean he thinks I am pushing God on h for all the answers.

3: 53 Yoli: BlueSky: Yeah that's what I thought he meant. But God is the answer for all our husbands problems. I know what he's telling you though.

3: 54 steadfast: Yoli: very little is settled to date . I am separated and not divorced but due to changes in the law and deadlines I have to divide assets for my own protection. Pray I meet the deadlines before the law changes. Also I pray h doesn't divorce me as law says a "No fault" and can't contest

3: 54 Lia: Swan H I couldn't bring self to do it. I think it's because people don't really understand this & take it seriously. I don't want laugh @ H even if I know H has no freedom now It would feel too mean & weird!

3: 54 BlueSky: Yoli, he says I am pushing him away even more. I have only done it once and it was to explain why I have hope.

3: 55 Lia: Yoli 3: 48 what book are you guys talking about?

3: 55 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - that is a prime example of how people on the outside of what this really is, the hurt, the love, the respect just don't understand. There would be nothing joking about her suggestion, in fact it would be blatant disrespect, glad you have grown beyond that type of thinking.

3: 55 Yoli: steadfast: Oh I know all about no fault divorce. I still spend a ridiculous amount of money on something that I didn't want.

3: 56 steadfast: Swan: Yes, I get discouraged at time re s but I do see some changes. But it blows my mind that h and MIL have convinced him nothing wrong with him going and living with ow. Everyone accepts her

3: 56 BlueSky: Lia, she listed it at 3: 45

3: 56 Lia: Blue Sky 3: 48 That is a HUGE blessing Satan is trying to plant doubt, fear, bitterness & anxiety in you. Renounce & Rebuke him in name of Jesus & he MUST flee from you!

3: 56 Yoli: Lia: The book is called The Point Man by Steve Farrar. It's very good even though it's intended for men. Steve Farrar said that God has a way of getting his type of book into our husbands hands. God also has a way of getting our husbands to his conferences. He said he has no idea how God does it but he does. I asked him what he thought about my situation and he was very candid.

3: 57 BlueSky: Yoli, I will check it out later. I look forward to it..

3: 58 steadfast: Swan/All: Everyone including a lot of Christians think after time it is even ok for me to be dating. I am totally shocked.

3: 58 Lia: Blue sky 3: 50 Pray for godly men to minister to H when right time comes & they are lead by God. Ask Holy Spirit to give you discernment about all you give to H & all you say & do!

3: 58 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - more often than not, it isn't that the family and friends have accepted the other person as much as they tolerate them to keep the peace and not be shut out of their loved ones life but voicing un-acceptance.

3: 58 BlueSky: Lia, thank you, I will.

3: 59 Yoli: Lia: Yeah thanks. I like this too. I'll have to remember.

3: 59 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - yeah, even the Christian world has accepted the "But God would want you to be happy" attitude, same that isn't in the Bible, the Word of God that DOES NOT CHANGE no matter how much we try to rewrite it.

3: 59 BlueSky: all, I do want to say my kids and I had a lovely Christmas morning, even though I was feeling the emptiness of h being gone. This was first time, even though we were sep last year we were still together for Christmas time at his folks house.

4: 00 steadfast: Swan; My MIL prepared my s that his father was leaving and over a period of a couple of years spoke negatively about me to my s and also had negative conversation with my h in s presence. I find it difficult to think she doesn't approve of ow

4: 00 Yoli: steadfast: Yeah my parents, even though my mom knows that I’m praying and waing for my husband, want me to date. My daughters have told me to date. Just the thought of doing this makes me want to throw up.

4: 01 Lia: Swan 3: 55 thanks! I got him a musical card from Joedee Messina singing silent night saying hoping your Christmas is full of beauty & joy & you have peace signed it with love. Kids got him 4 books, 2 pr jeans, socks sound ok?

4: 01 BlueSky: Yoli, I can't even fathom that either.

4: 01 steadfast: Yoli: I agree. Want to throw up too

4: 01 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - there are some mothers who are not going to like or accept any woman involved in their sons life, just because she doesn't care for you does not mean that she likes and accepts the other woman, she might equally be nasty to her.

4: 03 Lia: Steadfast 3: 56 They all do It hurts I know been there, still there. My H's sister even had nerve expect me change kids visit this w/e (my w/e) based on her work schedule instead planning time when kids were suppose be with H & SIL treated me poorly

4: 03 Yoli: steadfast: My in-laws are both gone. However, I do think that they would be devastated at what my husband has done and would be appalled at the way he's treating his daughters. I don't think they would like his girlfriend.

4: 03 steadfast: Swan : My mil told me how nice the ow is and other people have told me how nice she is. I had to call her looking for h as s was at scene of accident and wanted me to find his dad. She has a very attractive appealing mature super confident voice

4: 03 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - that sounds fine as long as it is what they kids picked out to give their father and it wasn't just something you picked out and said was from the kids. During MLC they get really upset when they think we are using the kids to "get to them".

4: 04 steadfast: My s tells me how nice she is too. Pretty hard to take that .

4: 05 Yoli: BlueSky, steadfast: I know how men are and that they are able to compartmentalize their lives or disassociate, but I still don't see how they can even hold hands with OW. But I guess that's for God to deal with not me.

4: 05 steadfast: Lia: I know where you are coming from--and I was always nice to my MIL

4: 06 Lia: Blue, Yoli & others 3: 58 & 3: 59 I am working on some new prayers I have some for H's & for us to be godly women I will send them & share with ESG for us to pray in agreement when done.

4: 06 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - even a con-man eventually has to stop putting on the face in the con. She may actually be very nice, just because she is committing adultery doesn't make her a not nice person, but there is also probably that new relationship dance in play and there will come a time when everyone even your mother in law starts to see her flaws.

4: 07 BlueSky: Yoli, omgosh, my son used that word, saying I need to compartmentalize my emotions.

4: 07 Lia: Swan & ALL forget huge praise I stopped minister from another local church @ bank He is very covenant marriage I was able share little details & ask prayers & he invited me to intercessory group that night it was great!!!!!

4: 08 Yoli: Lia: that would be great. Can't have enough prayers in my arsenal.

4: 08 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: BlueSky - Jim has an entire chapter on how men compartmentalize, literally the a place for everything and everything in it’s place kind of thing.

4: 08 steadfast: Swan: It's been 2.5 years. I can't help but think that something should be sinking in or the eyes should be opened a bit you'd think by now??

4: 08 steadfast: Lia: That is great!

4: 09 Yoli: BlueSky: Yep he's a man. But that's what they do. That's why they can be so blasé about having sex with someone whereas most women have to feel an emotional connection with the man. We don't compartmentalize. It's not in our nature.

4: 09 Lia: Swan & all cont: I have also seen people H & I knew & he worked with in past. I have asked for prayers restoration, briefly shared stand & God's promise & that's it. Learning to zip it a little better! One guy is older used work under H he's widowed, recently remarried & they are Christians & starting pray for us. I know someone will come into H's life soon to witness to him I just know it!

4: 10 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - and if there was a time limit on MLC! It is hard to say how long eyes remain closed, hearts remain hard and people run from God, the truth, emotional hurts, etc.

4: 11 steadfast: Swan: yes, you are right Swan. Sometimes want to scream--enough is enough but then I know that there are so many of you that have been on this journey for much longer.

4: 12 Yoli: Lia: I think it's great that you are so positive. Isn't that something we are supposed to be doing is claiming victory in what we are doing. We are supposed to claim what we want in Jesus' name.

4: 12 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - be cautious about asking too many people for prayer and giving details even brief, if it gets back to your husband and it most likely will, he might consider it a ploy to manipulate him and friends. It will increase his anger and he will cut himself completely from those you have talked to.

4: 12 Lia: Swan 4: 03 He told kids he didn't need anything, then told dtr he could use some socks other things were neat hunting books is all. Nothing romantic or serious.

4: 13 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - longer, shorter - the good news is God will never give us more than we can withstand, I just wish I had as much confidence in me as He does.

4: 14 Lia: Steadfast My in-laws turned against me & suck up big time to ow. She's lived life poorly & they made lots same mistakes & I think they "identify" with her, yet they are all VERY hung up on image

4: 14 steadfast: Swan: good point for Lia re being careful who and how many people you share with

4: 14 Yoli: Steadfast: Have you heard the testimony of Andy and Sandra Andrews? You can buy the tape from Rejoice Ministries. The husbands testimony is amazing. He basically says that when you belong to God, and run, eventually he will catch you.

4: 15 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - just so long as when he asked if they got him this stuff or did their mother get it, they can honestly say, it was from them and you had nothing to do with it. MLCers are touchy and easily triggered, not necessarily ration, but it is how they feel for now.

4: 15 Lia: Blue & Yoli compartmentalizing is the way a male brain works Good to understand it just like good for men to understand how our brain works, but. God made us male & female with differences to strengthen where other has weakness

4: 16 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli/steadfast - another great testimony is Tom and Lou Bearry with Covenant Keepers.

4: 16 steadfast: Swan/ all; When I had to call to get in contact with h re s car accident. He was not happy and I could tell angry that I called. Don't know if ow had contacted him and told him I was trying to reach him. He doesn't want me calling her but I had no

4: 17 Lia: Yoli the sex isn't even about compartmentalizing I don't think These affairs aren't either. It's all deceit! they are trying to fill a voids

4: 18 BlueSky: all, anyone hear from MAS yet today to see how she is doing?

4: 18 steadfast: Swan/all: choice as wasn't successful otherwise. He is very protective of her. Even my s was alarmed--it's like everyone has to protect her from me. I have had no contact with her except once when initially found out. I was polite and just passed

4: 19 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - that was a situation that was going to bring stress and anger to your husband regardless of your calling the ow or not. His brain most likely began to race with all the negative things of the accident, what it will bring, and how it has to be anyone else's fault, removing himself as much as possible.

4: 19 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: BlueSky - not today, but she was in chat last night and seemed to be doing pretty good.

4: 20 Yoli: Lia: Yeah I agree with you. I know my h has said that this woman is so smart and thin. Now that's something to really be attracted to, isn't it? Aren't they just looking for someone that's like a cheerleader for them?

4: 20 steadfast: message along. Maybe it will be a reality check that I do exist as they live in another town and all is accepted. they can stay there and pretend I don't exist. of course, I didn't call for that reason.

4: 21 Lia: Swan 4: 12 That sounds like a reasonable caution. I was happy I didn't know these people except pastor & 1 other out about 20 I told them H was gone & not wanting to reconcile is all & what I know God has promised & pray for kids in this time.

4: 21 Yoli: BlueSky: I invited MAS to come and stay here with me for a few days just for her to get away. I was really worried about her. I’m glad to hear that she was on chat last night and was doing good.

4: 22 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - it isn't always what you may or may not do in contact with the other person, it is usually more about their guilt and what they know the world would consider you justified in doing to the other person. It is a fear they create in their own minds, one they begin to make real to them.

4: 22 steadfast: Yoli/Swan: Don't know that testimony but will look into it. Swan, I did read Lou Berry's book. You handed in at a retreat and I think Lisa sent it to me

4: 23 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli - well let me tell you, you are very smart, intelligent (yes there is a difference), beautiful and you couldn't be thinner and still be healthy. She is and has nothing.

4: 24 Lia: Yoli 4: 20 I can tell you none that matters either I am thinner & better educated than this ow, yet nothing I said or did was enough & I was never a prize in H eyes. Their expectations are whacked! It's all lies they are blind deaf & deceived

4: 25 steadfast: Swan: Not quite following. ow seemed unmoved by my phone call after all she considers herself the victor as she has my h

4: 25 Yoli: Swanlake: Wow this shocked me. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. But you know how nice it would have been to have heard something to this effect from my husband. I did hear that my hair was like an African American's hair.

4: 26 Lia: Swan 4: 23 AMEN, AMEN, & AMEN, I for one KNOW your H is blind, deaf, & deceived. We’ve all met you & he's nuts. In time he'll probably commit himself when he realizes what he tried give up!!!!!

4: 27 steadfast: Swan: My s said that it would have been good if he had had an adult male there to help him explain to the police because he felt they just shut down because he was 19. Had hope h would stop snowmobiling and come into town to be with s as very

4: 27 Yoli: Lia: Yeah I agree that none of this matters. You are also a beautiful women whose not only better educated but such a Christian woman. It was so obvious that you love your family so very much.

4: 27 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - oh yeah I forgot Lou had given me some of her books to give away to others, I just love Letters to Jesus, have read it a few times. By the way watching the two of them is sooooo cute, Tom just follows her around at the Covenant Keepers Conference wanting to help her any way he can, the way he looks at her is so kind and loving and the way he will gently take her hand so naturally and at what seems like the best possible moment, yet just between the two of them. they are amazing and just think where they came from, the abuse, the adultery, the anger, Wow.

4: 27 Lia: Steadfast 4: 25 They don't give a CRAP about our kids the kids are their pawns. My H's ow uses her own son to invest every man she gets involved with then she uses what they give her & waits for next best thing. Mine has plenty fun, is young still lots

4: 28 steadfast: Swan and all: upsetting to have first accident. It took a long time for police to come --h was another away. H didn't come. Now says he will talk to police friend and help him fight ticket.

4: 28 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - for now she thinks she has won, but what she doesn't know is she isn't your enemy, nor is the battle yours, she will not be the victor against God and that is who she needs to be concerned with, not you.

4: 29 Yoli: Lia: Well thank you as well. Husband believes that I’m just not good for him. That's okay. It makes me wonder how he can walk into a social function with her on his arm, or have her live with him.

4: 29 Lia: Steadfast cont adventure too. She's holding on REALLY tight & sucking up to H with kids all time. She also does things to shove this in my face. Even had nerve to cut my kid's hair one night. Best part is I have full custody ... NERVE

4: 30 Lia: Yoli Thank you so much! 4: 27!

4: 30 steadfast: Swan: yes, you are right Swan at 4: 28. Amen!

4: 31 Yoli: Lia: I have referred to OW as a leach. She's sucking all the blood out of my husband and trying to ingratiate herself to the girls. But she's there, everywhere and husband can never go anywhere without her.

4: 31 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Yoli - and remember what I told you about your hair, it is gorgeous and a lot like my daughters hair and she was offered thousands of dollars by a prominent famous (non - African American) person if she would sell them her hair for a hair piece. Your husband will one day see what we see and even more he will see the grace of Christ that glows from inside you and that is more beautiful than any outward appearance.

4: 32 Lia: Swan 4: 27 Cool, you met them. I spoke with Lou on phone they faced lots struggles in past & they minister to very lost people

4: 32 Yoli: Steadfast: Steve Farrar told me that what is happening with my husband is between him and God, not him and me. In God's timing, he will convict them, they will repent and ask God and everyone for forgiveness.

4: 33 Lia: Swan & steadfast 4: 28 That's another big amen the battle belongs to the Lord & if He is for us, who can be against us.

4: 33 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - actually it might be best if you husband wasn't there to deal with the police, when in MLC they often tend to make matters worse because they are thinking with their pride and not their rational brain.

4: 34 steadfast: Lia/Swan all: I know of none of this type of behaviour. I am kept in the dark. However, s mentioned before and again last night that my h is getting fed up with ow 22 year old s who leaches off ow--his mother and can't hold job down too long and lazy

4: 34 BlueSky: Yoli, that must have been so wonderful to hear. I could use something like that. My h is an engineer and when he makes up his mind that’s it. Nothing changing it.

4: 35 Yoli: Swanlake: Yeah I remember you telling me about your daughter's hair. I believe that we all have some trait that makes us unique and I think mine happens to be my hair. I like to think that's why he doesn't want to see me because he knows I will look

4: 35 Lia: Yoli 4: 31 I know it's hurtful because many of us faced emotional abuse & even neglect because all pain inside our H & our overly busy lives, etc.... satan got a foothold, but we can through prayer & with God's power, reclaim this lost ground Just think how

4: 35 Yoli: Swanlake: cont-better than OW. He doesn't want to admit to himself that this is possible. Oh well, he's the one with the problem.

4: 36 steadfast: and living at home. I can't quite picture this. ow rents her downstairs. H always said we could never do bed and breakfast --didn't want strangers in our home. Also maybe after while life with our challenging teenage s might be like a picnic compared

4: 36 Lia: Yoli cont insecure OW must be in "relationship" that our H's can't speak, breathe, or move without them. It's pathetic & a lie, it will fail!

4: 36 steadfast: to ow s living on same floor of house with them This could be interesting

4: 36 Yoli: Bluesky: Yeah mine is an engineer as well. I know exactly what you are talking about. I can send you some interesting information about engineers and paradigms. I was fascinated with what I was hearing at a class that I went to.

4: 36 Lia: Swan & ALL 4: 31 Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4: 37 Plumcrazy: All-that is interesting my H is a NETWORK ENGINEER Think there is something to the engineer

4: 38 Plumcrazy: thing

4: 38 steadfast: Swan: You are right there. I see a lot of pride in my h unreal! He needs a true Damascus Road awakening. He has become so arrogant and self-righteous!

4: 38 Lia: Steadfast I think age difference could be plus in long run they get sick of childish antics of ow!

4: 38 Yoli: Plumcrazy: Well you know what I think mine is. That may very well be what yours and Bluesky's are. I can pretty much prove mine is.

4: 39 Plumcrazy: Yoli-I think my H maybe bi-polar

4: 39 Yoli: steadfast: Yep, you are describing my husband as well. From what little I know about him. I just wanted to die laughing when I read his bio and his mantra seems to be "Do the right thing!"

4: 40 Plumcrazy: Blue and Yoli-- Our H's sound similar

4: 40 BlueSky: Yoli, I would love to hear from you and your info.

4: 40 Lia: Steadfast I have had men we know come up to me & say they hope things work, but they as proud men themselves have met up with my H's pride & they say that will be biggest stumbling block in return Often that is cover for guilt & insecurity

4: 40 Yoli: Plum: I think I can show you that he's more of the other than bipolar. See if he were bipolar he could get meds.

4: 40 BlueSky: PLum, since your h is home that gives me hope with engineer.

4: 41 Plumcrazy: Yoli-Can you send me the info?

4: 41 steadfast: Lia: For me, I know nothing about ow behaviour. It's all kept secret. The only thing I heard is that they had a bit of conflict over her s being lazy. She said she cared a lot about my h but obviously he didn't feel that way about her s

4: 41 Yoli: BlueSky: Okay, I can send you the information. I know Jim told me one time that I needed to stop diagnosing my husband, but this is what I do almost daily.

4: 41 Plumcrazy: Yoli-you mean aspbergers?

4: 42 Yoli: Plum: Yes.

4: 42 Lia: Ladies Bi-Polar, personality disorder, MLC, abandonment & attachment issues aside, these things help us understand a bit, yet God says lean not on our understanding but in all ways acknowledge Him & He will make path straight

4: 42 BlueSky: Yoli, I think we can't help but do that, because we don't get answers from them, we have to make our own. So I understand.

4: 43 steadfast: Swan/All: the only thing I know for sure is that ow is just wonderful! But Swan at some point, the perfection must wear off right

4: 43 Yoli: Lia: Yeah that's what my prayer group leader keeps telling me.

4: 43 Yoli: BlueSky, Plum: You guys know that there's a movie coming out about a man with Asperger's. I don't know if it's at the theater yet.

4: 43 Lia: Ladies cont: I say that because I struggle with needing to understand & was psych major YET it all boils down to satan knowing our weakness as male, female & because past & present, but God's will always wins He wants NONE to perish If H does have mental

4: 44 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - the Word of God says that all things done in darkness will be brought to the light of truth and that includes the sins and imperfections of the other woman.

4: 44 Yoli: steadfast: I think once the honeymoon period is over, and the comfortable level goes up, the nails come out. Reality will set in quickly.

4: 44 steadfast: Swan; so I shouldn't get too upset about the anger in my h voice when I contacted him? He does whatever he can to avoid me. But maybe his lawyer got hold of him and he knows he has to come back to the table legally. He has left me hanging and maybe

4: 45 Plumcrazy: yoli-Do you know the name of the movie

4: 45 Lia: Ladies cont mental health prob or personality issues satan uses them to cause us to SIN Lets remember to pray against & bind ALL these negative traits & loosen the Fruit of Spirit & & positives in our H children & us. Pray we see them as God does!

4: 45 steadfast: Swan: thought things could go on that way forever or until he calls the shots. Maybe things have thrown him for a loop in that I am pursing some financial protection. Amen to 4: 44

4: 46 Yoli: Lia: Yeah that's what Steve Farrar said. He said that whatever name I wanted to give it, ultimately it was just plain sin. Bottom line - sin against God and God's will.

4: 46 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - I wouldn’t take his anger personally, he is an angry man right now and he has to have someplace to direct his anger, it seems to be you that has this honor.

4: 46 steadfast: Yoli: Good analogy!!

4: 46 Yoli: Plum: No, let me see if I can find it in the videos we rented. Will let you know.

4: 47 BlueSky: Yoli/Plumcrazy, what are your H's thoughts on God. I ask this because of their scientific nature

4: 47 Yoli: steadfast: I just remember all the places we have visited and husband would comment on what an incredible place it would be to live. I would always have to say, yeah but they still have to take out the trash, cut the grass, clean the house, etc., etc

4: 47 Lia: Yoli 4: 43 I need lots reminders of that myself. A strong male stander/men's leader across globe said to me once: Be careful not to get too much Psychology mixed with your faith. I try remind self that a lot, but I still mess up lots!

4: 48 steadfast: Swan: Oh do I sense his anger. 2.5 years later and I think every last thing that ever happened to him negatively in his life can somehow be traced to me. I can't believe it. I supported him emotionally, loved him unconditionally and wham

4: 48 Lia: Swan 4: 44 Amen to that. Do you remember where that scripture is Swan?

4: 48 Yoli: steadfast: cont-Husband would just look at me like I was crazy. Then he would agree with me. Life goes on even in the most beautiful places in the world that there are to visit. so that's why I know that the honeymoon period won't last long.

4: 49 Plumcrazy: Steadfast_ H told me something a few weeks ago H was in a hurry to get to work they were having issues. He yelled at me. I asked him "Why are you yelling at ME" H said "You are the dumping ground the bucket that catches all the crap"

4: 49 Lia: Steadfast my DB coach used a chart of neg behaviors & motivation how we feel in response & new ways to respond to keep behaviors from getting worse. The book it's in is Love & Logic

4: 49 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - I think it is in Mark 4

4: 50 Yoli: Bluesky: I can tell you that my husband grew up extremely religious and practiced our faith. He was the reason I went back to the church. He read the bible every night. He believes in God without a doubt. However, I think that after his father

4: 50 steadfast: Yoli/Swan: Doesn't Jim say usually by year 3 they start to have the lights go on. But my h is like a freight train on a track. He thinks he will live in town he grew up in, has ow, people like him, going to transfer to work there by Sept, has dad's

4: 51 Yoli: BlueSky: cont-passed away, he got really angry with God. Then his mother got sick and was sick for about 14 years before she passed. I think that he had a harder time than most men, even though I know men aren't brought up to show their emotions, to

4: 51 Lia: Steadfast. Inform H what need to inform him of, try not get emotional & say calling to inform you that xxxxx is ok but got into accident, he's @ xxxxx & this is what's ahppening. You can go over there or call be for update later if you wish, goodbye!

4: 51 Lia: Steadfast don't let H push your buttons

4: 52 steadfast: inheritance now, buying things, thinking about getting a house down there and he will live happily ever after. He told people just wasn't happy and now has a girlfriend. he told a friend that and she told me your h needs to grow up. She said she felt

4: 52 Lia: Yoli 4: 46 amen! Bob Steinkamp says same

4: 52 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: steadfast - what Jim says is MLC can last from 3 to 7 years, some maybe longer or shorter. When the lights begin to go on depends on when they start to accept the root of the crisis, face it and work on healing from it.

4: 52 steadfast: like throwing up as she didn't know we had separated 2.5 years ago.

4: 53 Yoli: BlueSky: cont-grieve for both of them. He had a lot of problems showing his working through his grief. He had to get help. However, when his mom passed away he had already moved out. I don't think he grieved at all. Daughters say that he has no heart

4: 53 Plumcrazy: Bluesky At the worst part of this H was God doesn’t exist. Then he says now he will not commit suicide in case there is a GOD. H is Muslim.

4: 54 Lia: Swan 4: 49 thanks!

4: 54 Yoli: steadfast: I've never heard Jim say this about 3 years. I think the minimum amount of time for them to begin to work through their issues is 5 years but there's no guarantee that they will work through them. It's best not to put a timeframe on God

4: 56 Plumcrazy: Bluesky-I told H a few weeks ago I wished he could feel better. H said "I will" I said "How by dying (he has been carrying on about it) H said Yeah or maybe GOD will come into my life" h has never said anything like that before

4: 56 Yoli: steadfast: cont-or expect things to happen according to a specific time. I’m guilty of thinking about this as well. However, I know there are some studies done that show that if a man stays in his marriage, regardless of him being unhappy, after 5

4: 57 Yoli: steadfast: cont-years they are happier than they were. It's really just a matter of time that allows God to work on all of us. I can't help but think about Charlyne asking if you are ready for your husband to come home today. Probably not if you

4: 58 Yoli: steadfast: cont-haven't changed and grown in God. Sorry, I hope you don't think I was lecturing.

4: 58 Lia: Swan I still hear confusion about when time starts my H started replay well before left, car, prob ow that was at least spring 2006 maybe some denial & replay year or two before. Said he was leaving Dec. 2007 left April 2008 immed with ow prob b4

5: 00 Yoli: Plum: I think it's great that your husband has mad a comment like this about God coming into his life. Tha't's quite positive. Do you think he would attend one of Steve Farrar's conferences? Check out his website. He goes all over the USA talking.

5: 00 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - I believe there is confusion because MLC cannot be quantified, there is no hard timeline, the best that can be done is taking the information they have, putting it together and determining an average. I like to say it started when it started and it will be over when it is over, until then I just need to rest in God and let Him do what needs to be done.

5: 00 Plumcrazy: Yoli-I really don’t know if he would. I will check out the website though

5: 02 steadfast: Swan/ all: I was just very direct with h re s and told him had accident, is ok and wanted to talk to his dad. That's it. Also, sorry about the timeframe thing. Yes, I know that I can't put God in a box and dictate his time but I just go thru this

5: 02 steadfast: periodically

5: 02 Yoli: Plum: I think it would be amazing if he could attend. It may be the most non-threatening way for him to hear about God and God's will for our lives. I think he's just as good as Jim.

5: 03 steadfast: especially when I still find h uncooperative and so angry with me.

5: 04 Yoli: steadfast: Oh please. I know I think about the time all the time. then I have to slap myself around. It's just so hard to think about all the time that's being wasted by our husbands. But then I tell myself that this is the time that God needs to

5: 04 Yoli: steadfast: cont-work on me. then I’m okay until the next time.

5: 05 Lia: Ladies there is a sight called savemymarriage.com from family dynamics institute Christians they don't force issue & work with lots in secular world. I received email without requesting anything think I contacted them long ago. They work with only 1

5: 05 steadfast: Yoli: I agree

5: 05 Plumcrazy: Hi cricket

5: 06 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello Cricket - how are you doing this wonderful Lord's day, enjoying your family?

5: 06 Yoli: steadfast: Yeah your husband will continue to be angry with you for a while. Plus he doesn't want to have to deal with any responsibility. What with your son having the accident, he had to admit that your son exists as well as you.

5: 06 Lia: Ladies cont wanting reconcile & have list ways to request to spouse they come just to @ least have good working relationship because kids & get some closure if possible etc.... I liked girl I spoke to God will tell me when H can receive

5: 06 Cricket [Facilitator]: Hi all - I am so sorry, I totally lost track of time. I was thinking it was 6 p.m. PST.

5: 07 Cricket [Facilitator]: Swan - I’m so sorry, I just realized that it was actually time to close chat & I hadn't helped today.

5: 07 Yoli: All: Okay, I think I've overstayed my welcome. I need to do something besides just sitting here on computer. Just want to thank you all for everything. You really helped me out today. Thanks.

5: 07 Lia: Hey cricket Merry Christmas

5: 08 Cricket [Facilitator]: Swan - Yes we watched the movie Fireproof together and have been visiting & getting dinner together. I went from thinking there was plenty of time til chat to realizing I missed it.

5: 08 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Cricket - nothing is hard-line today, I am just playing it by ear for closing. Glad you have joined us.

5: 08 Cricket [Facilitator]: Merry Christmas all.

5: 08 Cricket [Facilitator]: All - we had a lot of trouble yesterday with internet connection but at least I was able to help then.

5: 08 Lia: Yoli Please feel free to call me anytime You have me on the list from retreat! I am EST but usually up till almost midnight

5: 08 Plumcrazy: Merry Christmas Cricket

5: 09 BlueSky: Wow, I got booted off by my internet and yet my d was sitting next to me and hers was still working. So I have switched computers.

5: 09 Cricket [Facilitator]: Plum - How did things go for you and your H?

5: 09 steadfast: All: So glad to visit with you. Merry Christmas to all!

5: 09 Cricket [Facilitator]: BlueSky - I kept getting booted off last night all night.

5: 10 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: BlueSky - well we are glad you were able to join us again.

5: 10 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: helpme - hey lady how is your Christmas?

5: 10 Lia: help me hello! & Merry Christmas

5: 10 steadfast: Plum; Appreciated your earlier comment when your h id that you are the dumping ground--that helps

5: 11 Plumcrazy: Cricket=I gave h money for Christmas as he doesn’t want me to buy him anything. H said "You know you didn’t have to give me anything. Thank you though”

5: 11 helpme: Swanlake & Cricket; Hello...just now got home & wanted to pop in and say thank you for prayers today! We all had a wonderful time & a good visit! PTL !!!

5: 11 Lia: Cricket may I be so bold as to ask if H contacted you around holidays? I pray yes!

5: 11 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: helpme - did you all get to hear from oldest son?

5: 12 Lia: helpme with H?

5: 12 Plumcrazy: Helpme-tell us about your day I have been thinking about you

5: 12 Lia: Swan & All my friend talked to her son yesterday from Afghanistan & I could see her beaming through the computer!

5: 12 helpme: Swanlake; No, but he did send me a message & say he will try his best to get on skype tonight & talk to me...I sure hope he does, it would help both him & myself

5: 13 Lia: I think cricket got booted off again : (

5: 13 BlueSky: I guess I missed Cricket

5: 13 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: helpme - I wasn't sure when he was going to try skype, but will have fingers crossed that he is able to get through.

5: 14 steadfast: All: we are in for quite a storm. Have snow but is now raining and suppose to freeze and the wind is very strong.

5: 14 Lia: Blue I think she got kicked out again

5: 14 helpme: Swanlake; Oldest grandson & his grandpa had a BLAST today playing! It was So neat to see that

5: 14 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: BlueSky - maybe not, she has been having computer problems, she got kicked off so much last night, she just gave up.

5: 14 Lia: steadfast been raining here in NE today & freezing too

5: 15 Lia: helpme so you spent day with H/ 5: 13

5: 15 steadfast: Lia: Yes, I see that you have had many areas of storms in the US

5: 16 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: helpme - what a blessing that your h got that time with grandson, I know it has really hurt him that DIL has kept him away from them depending on her mood

5: 16 helpme: Lia; Yes, the biggest part of day, then went to my mom's...I think I ate more food today than I have all year....lol

5: 16 Lia: Steadfast oh yeah, you in Canada?

5: 16 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: helpme - what time is dinner on Sunday, want to have you covered in prayer for that day too

5: 16 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: hey Joey, how are ya

5: 17 steadfast: Lia: yes

5: 17 Joey [Facilitator]: Hello everyone! Merry Christmas!

5: 17 Lia: Yeah!!!!!!! Joey, how are you darling?

5: 17 steadfast: Merry Christmas Joey and again to all

5: 17 Lia: helpme PTL so your H went to your mom's too?

5: 17 Plumcrazy: Joey ___Merry Christmas

5: 17 helpme: Swanlake; Youngest son is supposed to call & let me know time to be ready Sunday, will let you know. Bless you so much for prayers today!

5: 18 Lia: Swan my mom asked for H's address today she wanted send him Christmas card but said she will send him greeting for new year what do you think?

5: 18 BlueSky: Hi Joey, Merry Christmas

5: 18 helpme: Lia; No, H was at ow's house today

5: 19 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: helpme - I will just start the day out with a little prayer and then shoot one up every so often until bedtime.

5: 19 BlueSky: all, Merry Christmas to you too, I came in in such a mood I forgot to wish everyone a MC

5: 19 Lia: helpme what's Sunday dinner about I'll pray too

5: 19 Joey [Facilitator]: All, had a blessed day. Seen family, friends.

5: 20 Lia: helpme 5: 18 how do you do this sooooo well?

5: 20 helpme: Lia; I am invited back out to H's for Christmas with youngest son (he had to work today)

5: 20 steadfast: All: Will have to go . Praying for all of you over this blessed season. God bless. Glad to hear things went well Helpme

5: 20 Joey [Facilitator]: help, how did things go???

5: 20 Lia: Helpme does it make it easier that H is decent to you & you connect still through kids?

5: 20 helpme: Joey; Things went well today : )

5: 21 Joey [Facilitator]: Help, I prayed through the whole week for you!!! God is good!!! : )

5: 21 Cricket [Facilitator]: I was trying to catch up on things but realized that 4 hours is just too much to catch up on without missing what is happening now.

5: 21 Cricket [Facilitator]: Swan/All - I saw that there was a new member who joined us today. So glad you were all there to comfort him. I worry about his chat name as that is a name used in my former line of work for a weapon.

5: 21 Cricket [Facilitator]: Plum - That was good that he seemed to appreciate your gift & the gesture.

5: 21 Cricket [Facilitator]: Helpme - That is wonderful that all went well today.

5: 21 Cricket [Facilitator]: Lia - No he didn't but I didn't expect him to in fact was sure he wouldn't. I do know he has been with his family for the past week & they sent a card & note.

5: 22 Cricket [Facilitator]: BRB - My sister needs my help for a moment.

5: 22 helpme: Lia; Yes it does. There was a time when H wanted nothing to do with me or the boys...

5: 22 Cricket [Facilitator]: Helpme - The Lord continues to do mighty work in your situation, PTL.

5: 22 Lia: Joey I am sorry : ( prob satan using ow or guilt keeping him from responding God will tug @ his heart though, you know it!

5: 22 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket, I thought it started at 8 EST, did it not? Plus I just got in.

5: 23 helpme: Cricket; Something I found odd....him & ow does not exchange Christmas gifts...

5: 23 Cricket [Facilitator]: Joey - No it started early - Swan covered the whole 4 hours on her own as I lost track of time.

5: 23 Cricket [Facilitator]: Helpme - Well as we say, things are not what they seem on the other side of the mountain.

5: 23 Lia: helpme 5: 20 that is soooo great he lives separate from ow! mine didn't even come in & help kids bring their gifts in to house last night Can barely handle saying hello on phone usually more a grunt

5: 23 Joey [Facilitator]: All, my MIL shared that my H was out of state so I didn't have to worry about that going over there.

5: 24 Joey [Facilitator]: Swan, Thank You!

5: 24 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Joey - I just love that your MIL has reconnected with you and shows you the respect and love you deserve as her DIL.

5: 25 Cricket [Facilitator]: Joey - Yes you know better than most how they begin to climb out & then run back into the tunnel. We know our Lord is working though.

5: 25 Lia: cricket 5:21 No worries there mate, My friends mastive was that same name let's not forget the sheriff in Dukes of Hazard! LOL

5: 25 Cricket [Facilitator]: Swan/Joey - AMEN regarding MIL.

5: 26 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket, yes, I’m trying not to let it bother me but it stings.

5: 26 Lia: Cricket 5: 21 praying he'll come back out tunnel soon. Glad you are still on good terms with his family

5: 26 Joey [Facilitator]: All, I love that woman and she knows that I truly love "her" now as a person through this. for that I am grateful.

5: 27 Joey [Facilitator]: Plum, how was your Christmas?

5: 27 Lia: helpme how long was H angry & pulled away. Mine sees kids just has brand new life & hasn't missed beat yet just remove wife & insert ow here sort of thing like steadfast he's doing well financially & having lots fun ...For now.... until that season

5: 28 BlueSky: all, need to pop out for dinner with the kids.

5: 28 Lia: help me cont of reaping consequences & getting onto his knew in front of the cross!

5: 28 BlueSky: as always, thank you and Merry Christmas

5: 28 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: BlueSky - goodnight and have a great dinner

5: 28 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi BS, you were not showing on the screen - Merry Christmas!

5: 29 Plumcrazy: Joey-It has been kinda quiet Just H and kids and I H cooked lunch and I made dinner. His turned out better than mine

5: 29 Lia: Joey suppose end then but Swan said something about playing it by ear thing! Swan's done great job keeping up with everything tonight wow!

5: 29 Joey [Facilitator]: Plum, sounds like a really great day. : )

5: 30 Lia: helpme 5: 23 that is weird!

5: 30 Plumcrazy: Bluesky- Take care and Merry Christmas

5: 30 Joey [Facilitator]: Lia, that’s why Swan is the bomb!

5: 30 Lia: Joey & Swan AMEN to that 5: 24

5: 31 helpme: Lia; When H left he was very angry.....stayed that way up untill maybe this year....at first he didn't even see the boys but slowly...very slowly he started wanting more to do with boys...then grandchildren.....it's been 4 yrs. since H left

5: 31 Lia: Blue have nice time & Merry Christmas

5: 32 Cricket [Facilitator]: Swan - I’m still struggling with internet - the phone seems to knock me off & family has been getting phone calls.

5: 32 Lia: Joey yes, probably the MC thing Semper Fi (sp) baby!

5: 33 Plumcrazy: Joey_H did talk to my MOM He asked her if she wanted me back when he was done talking to her. Then H said "Cause no one here wants her" Mom said Tell H I will take you. H said " I will send her first class then" Funny boy!

5: 34 Plumcrazy: Joey_ I just told H what Mom said then went on talking to her

5: 34 Lia: helpme 5: 31 I wonder if that shows more conviction & sense guilt. My H is very arrogant & even thinks he can still expect me say how high when he says jump. He sees kids all time acts like I’m not their mom & never his wife like I need drop off earth

5: 35 Plumcrazy: Joey-I think he was seeing if he could get a reaction out of me

5: 35 Lia: Plum 5: 33 I think that comment was more about how he feels about himself in relation to others & actually has nothing to do with you!

5: 36 Joey [Facilitator]: Plum, you handled that well!!!!! attcha girl!

5: 36 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - testing - oh yes, they are looking for reactions - proof that we are changed and the changes are going to stay and/or proof that we haven't changed a bit and they are justified in what they are doing.

5: 37 helpme: Lia; If ow's boys are staying in town at friends house, H will come by to visit now...that was not always the case...especially right after H left

5: 38 helpme: Swanlake; At first I felt a little odd taking H the fudge, but he really liked it!

5: 38 Joey [Facilitator]: Lia, what did 5: 32 go with, I’m lost on that one. trying to read everything and lost it. : )

5: 39 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: helpme - and even though he might not realize it now, the fudge will bring him some fond memories, that will repay in his mind.

5: 39 Lia: helpme & swan it's a fudge kind of night

5: 39 Joey [Facilitator]: help, that was a good move!!!! anything they like is a positive safe connection when the time is right.

5: 40 Lia: Joey 5: 38 the comment on Swan being the bomb alone in here 4 hrs!

5: 40 Joey [Facilitator]: Lia, OK - got it! : )

5: 41 Joey [Facilitator]: all, just got a phone call, be back in a few - K

5: 41 Lia: Joey I have lots things I did for H & made, but now his mother sends fudge every year (mine's better) & the OW made snicker doodles & peanut blossoms the other day, but son said she burned them! I wonder if H ever connected from day one people are

5: 41 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia/Joey - Swan is never alone, I believe and live Gods promise to always be with me - LOL

5: 42 Lia: Joey cont disposable to the entire family it seems

5: 43 Lia: Swan amen & Halleluiah!!!!!!! 5: 41

5: 44 Cricket [Facilitator]: All - I had to shut down their modem & reboot so still having trouble with internet.

5: 45 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - what are some good things about your husband, is there anything respectable, honorable, good in him? You say he has always been like this, very selfish, cruel, etc. But there had to be something that attached you to him and something that you love about him, focus on those things and not the selfishness things he does

5: 45 Lia: Cricket: Lets renounce satan in agreement!

5: 46 helpme: Well...it's been a long day & this lady is tired so think I’m going to go. Merry Christmas Everyone & May God Bless Each And Every One! In my prayers, good night

5: 47 Plumcrazy: Helpme-Merry Christmas

5: 47 helpme: Lia; That's what I fixed...PB fudge : )

5: 48 Lia: Swan He is a lot of fun, wanted so much better than grew up with, sexy for sure, passionate, adventurous, loyal & honest, that's why I know he's been deceived & has gone back to where came from temporarily! The demanding part has always been there

5: 48 sbky: Merry Christmas everyone

5: 49 Lia: Swan cont. My H has always said he was selfish & hard to live with & has no compassion, I don't think he really wants to feel that way about himself though. I think compassion is what drew him to me & his fun adventurous side drew me to him

5: 49 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: sbky - hello dear lady

5: 50 Lia: helpme Merry Christmas & god's blessings Sunday

5: 50 Lia: helpme it's the best!

5: 51 Cricket [Facilitator]: All - My sister is calling me as dinner is about ready. I'll check back in case anyone is still here. Merry Christmas and THANK YOU SWAN - You are incredible!

5: 52 Plumcrazy: Sbky-Merry Christmas

5: 52 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Cricket - thanks for stopping back, have fun and a bite of something sweet and yummy for me.

5: 53 Lia: Swan thanks for reminder! 5: 45 I have to say he asked me about oldest coming to see me I was shocked I told him I invited her come & stay while home but she hasn't he said she was waiting specific invitation on Christmas she came today & that was great

5: 53 sbky: all I have been next door all day. just came home.

5: 54 Lia: sbky how was your Christmas? did you spend it with H, kids & extended fam?

5: 54 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hey Hannah - how has your Christmas been

5: 54 Lia: All praying Joey is on an incredible phone call!

5: 55 Lia: Hannah girl, Merry Christmas babe!

5: 55 Plumcrazy: Hannah_ Merry Christmas

5: 55 sbky: all I am having connection problems. may come and go

5: 55 sbky: lia yes my h has been next door since last night. I have just came home from next door..

5: 56 sbky: but we just ignored each other. almost as much as usual

5: 58 sbky: am I here..?

5: 59 Plumcrazy: YES you are

5: 59 sbky: all ok. I am. my connection is so messed up

5: 59 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: sbky - well dear you are always somewhere - LOL!

5: 59 Joey [Facilitator]: lia, it’s a prayer partner from Thurs. night.

5: 59 sbky: plum I am getting ready to upload a pic of my d and her framed jersey this morning. she cried..

6: 00 Plumcrazy: Sbky-Can’t wait to see the pic.

6: 01 Lia: sbky so sorry for that : ( must be very difficult with him sooo close & not connecting. That's hard for me when I see H at kids' events but lately he's tapped me on shoulder or leaned forward to get my attention & asked questions so it's start I guess

6: 01 sbky: plum it was from her 6th grade year they had a perfect season

6: 01 Lia: Joey Do we need to pray with her now?

6: 01 sbky: lia. it almost killed me the first year.. I really thought I was gonna lose my mind

6: 01 sbky: lia it is hard it seems everyone gets him but me. but they are getting the real him

6: 02 Hannah [Facilitator]: Hi Swan, just catching up on chat. My Christmas was wonderful thank you. The grandchildren make it magical/

6: 02 Hannah [Facilitator]: Hi Lia, and Plum.

6: 02 Joey [Facilitator]: lia, she's good. this is something we do pretty often.

6: 03 Lia: All I have to say my kids were soooo happy with something as simple as the new memory foam mattresses they got I saw it as the gift of comfort & peaceful sleep! Of course they like other stuff even more. PTL they went to church last night w/ me!

6: 03 Plumcrazy: Hannah--glad you had a good day with your family

6: 04 Hannah [Facilitator]: Plum how was your day?

6: 04 sbky: plum I might up load a pic. I am having a time finding where to do it again

6: 04 Plumcrazy: Hannah-nice and quiet H made lunch and I made dinner

6: 04 Lia: sbky 6: 01 I know, it stinks. They smile & laugh when they talk to others & you want to say I’m here, I love you, please talk & let me listen, let me hold you, I’m sorry you hurt, & then plain let me in!!!!!!!

6: 05 Lia: Joey 6: 02 good glad to hear it!

6: 05 Plumcrazy: Lia@6: 04 I know those feelings

6: 05 Lia: Hannah did you spend day with your kids & grand kids?

6: 06 Joey [Facilitator]: hi Hannah!!!!!!

6: 06 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hannah - and from your Christmas card, you have the cutest, sweet faced grandbabies.

6: 07 Lia: sbky 6: 04 it's hard to see the hate & anger as anything but that & not to take it personally, but they don't really hate us & it's not personal, though it feels that way!

6: 08 Hannah [Facilitator]: Lia I did. It was a fun day.

6: 08 Hannah [Facilitator]: Joey Hi, how was your day?

6: 09 Hannah [Facilitator]: swan thank you

6: 09 Lia: SBKY Will H talk to you for even a moment one on one? Mine is better when we are "kind of" alone, yet in public like kids event in quite space. Brief very brief contact if ever & usually logistics. He actually talked to me by car after S FB game &

6: 09 Joey [Facilitator]: Hannah, I had a really good day! : )

6: 09 Hannah [Facilitator]: Swan you know I have two grandbabies but their three cousins treat me as Nana so I have 5.

6: 10 sbky: lia I called him yesterday and we talked for about 8 minutes about presents..

6: 10 Hannah [Facilitator]: sbky how was your day?

6: 10 Lia: sbky laughed about some things I wanted to say, see I’m not a monster & you can talk to me, Tried to smile a lot & just edify whatever he said in true & real way

6: 10 sbky: hannah it has been good

6: 11 Joey [Facilitator]: {{{Hannah}}}

6: 11 sbky: lia my h seems a lot more relax when we do say anything to each other

6: 11 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hannah - I know what you mean, my grandson has a couple of cousins through his mothers brothers and when we all got together, they would get caught up and call me grandma too and want to sit on my lap, etc. kids are just great aren't they.

6: 11 Lia: sbky that's good my H & I talked about presents a couple weeks ago it was anice 10 min or so conversation. It's hard to not want more isn't it

6: 12 Joey [Facilitator]: kids are sincere and real : )

6: 12 Hannah [Facilitator]: sbky when will you know if you got the promotion?

6: 12 Plumcrazy: All_ I am not feeling well. Just got a pain in lower back all of the sudden now pain in bladder area. Hop it isn’t kidney stone again!

6: 13 Lia: SBKY 6: 11 that's great. Mine is best when I am sure OW is @ work & H is calling from his work or OW is not home & H is @ kids' things. She seems to be sending her son with H to these sports events maybe to spy poor kid has dad he could be with

6: 13 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Joey and hannah - I was at their birthday parties, always at my grandson's house, spend Christmas, Thanksgiving, family BBQ's, etc. they just considered me part of the family and never asked who I was, just called me what my grandson called me. they are older and know who I am now.

6: 14 sbky: hannah I have my interview is the 30th

6: 14 Lia: Plum 6: 12 I rebuke that in name of almighty Jesus!

6: 15 Lia: sbky praying for peace & blessings for that interview then

6: 15 sbky: lia thanks..

6: 16 Joey [Facilitator]: swan, : ) gotta love that.

6: 17 Plumcrazy: All-How much longer is chat going to go on?

6: 17 sbky: all the job is a team lead position and is 2.25 more on the hour. but it will be a later shift. will miss most of my d games. but will eventually move up in time

6: 17 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Joey - my son has got the greatest in-laws and we all used to go family things together rather than our children dividing up their holidays, half a day here, half a day there, etc. It worked well

6: 17 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - I think I will finish out the hour, then normal chat would be over, and will close then.

6: 18 Plumcrazy: Swan_ thanks It is nice to come here

6: 18 Lia: sbky 6: 17 write your lists of pros & cons & even weight them individually on individual & overall impact on you & fam. Pray about it & ask God for discernment

6: 19 Hannah [Facilitator]: sbky I will pray for God's will be done

6: 19 Lia: Swan My siblings' in-laws all come to my sister & parents houses too. It's great.

6: 19 sbky: lia done praying. I interviewed for it before my last semester of school started.. and I didn’t get it. but I just felt that was meant to be. I wouldn’t be a college graduate yet if I had got the position

6: 20 Lia: Plum 6: 18 Yes, it's been great to have this extended time

6: 20 Joey [Facilitator]: sbky, things will work perfectly! : )

6: 21 Lia: sbky 6: 19 so it was a timing thing! Sort of like our spouses!

6: 22 sbky: lia and joey. God timing can be hard sometimes but I know it is perfect..

6: 23 Joey [Facilitator]: sbky, I know that’s right. if you'd asked me I was ready a long time ago for H to come home - NOT even close, Thank God for His timing!

6: 23 Lia: yeppers! sbky! @ 6: 22

6: 23 sbky: joey me too.

6: 24 sbky: joey I just wish I saw more signs that I have understood God and that this is what will be

6: 25 Lia: Joey, sometimes I’m not even convinced it's just us who need to be ready it can be our H's or even lots other family members friends & even strangers, God's ways are not ours right!

6: 26 sbky: Joey I was really down a few weeks ago. I asked God did I mis-understand all of this. the next day I was listening to the radio.. Reba Mckentire Christmas guest came on the radio . I changed the station. but something made me change back.. cont

6: 27 sbky: joey cont. I don’t know if you know it. but the man ask God did I misunderstand. and God said NO..

6: 27 Joey [Facilitator]: Sbky, just get quite before Him and stay until you have that answer. I had someone pray with me and another stander friend and the Lord spoke through her and said J..., it’s better to hurt and be in obedience to me than be disobedient and filled with false joy.

6: 28 Lia: sbky what is the title of that song?

6: 28 sbky: lia the Christmas quest

6: 28 Joey [Facilitator]: sbky, hmmmm I think you got your answer there sweetie!

6: 29 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Joey - Amen to 6: 27, that false joy comes with a lot of emptiness.

6: 29 sbky: joey yes. I feel music has meant a lot to me through this..

6: 30 Lia: Joey & SBKY I like the word that says I am the Lord God, I have said it, I will do it! (paraphrase)

6: 30 Joey [Facilitator]: swan, that’s what our spouses are trapped in.

6: 31 sbky: joey when this was all very new. my favorite musician is Bob Segar.. he hadn’t had a song out in like 15 years or so. and his songs are not played on country music stations. He had a new song came out. The song is called "will you wait for me"

6: 31 Lia: Joey 6: 29 PTL Praying he will try to contact dear Joey & the Holy Spirit speaks loudly to him & the contact is great

6: 32 sbky: joey the words to it. just fit this situation.

6: 33 Joey [Facilitator]: sbky, I liked Bob Segar too.

6: 33 Lia: Swan 6: 29 I have found when friends Christians even say God released you or don't you want to, or don't you think that I can say sure I could find someone & be in a healthy relationship & have some good times but it would be a lie I have 1 H & he's

6: 34 Plumcrazy: Sbky-I just looked at the lyrics will listen later

6: 34 sbky: Joey I like him because you can do anything to the music. dance. clean house, just hang out.. other things..lol

6: 35 Lia: Swan cont one many people I plan on seeing in heaven someday. Being with someone else would be false joy as you guys have said It's also not where God is calling us to be!

6: 36 sbky: plum the lyrics say something about "knowing I am wrong but you let me be.." something like that

6: 36 Lia: Joey 6: 30 ? you mean false joy? Sin is fun for a season. Satan was beautiful & he deceives us using that when we are tempted. I think he tries to use that false sense joy to deceive believers PTL God protects us from his evil schemes

6: 37 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - but can they show you in God's Word where it says He does these things or that He thinks these things. I'll tell you what it does say, He hates divorce.

6: 38 sbky: swan I feel that to. but people say "you need to be happy"..and I am happy for the most part.

6: 38 Joey [Facilitator]: Lia, those were the woman of God words, not mine.

6: 39 Joey [Facilitator]: sbky, LOL at 6: 34

6: 39 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: sbky - I usually respond that I am happy and if it isn't to their standard, I still have to live my life for me, not them.

6: 39 Hannah [Facilitator]: Joey I think it was you or “blindfaith” who told me that nowhere in the bible does God promise us happiness just joy from knowing him. And when I hear people say God would want me to be happy I have to roll my eyes.

6: 39 sbky: joey I just reread the words.. yall need to read it. it just screams to me

6: 39 Lia: Swan Amen to that!!!!! Corinthians says to let an unbeliever leave Not divorce them it also says be alone or be reconciled. It also says God's will always wins!!!!! & the proud will be humbles & No one can withstand His hand Amen, Amen, Amen

6: 40 Lia: Joey PTL H put you on his buddy list, I think that is HUGE!!!!!!

6: 40 sbky: swan I usually tell them I don’t need a man to be happy.. my kids are the most important thing in my life right now

6: 40 Plumcrazy: Sbky are you talking about the song lyrics?

6: 40 Joey [Facilitator]: Hannah, that one could have been me or “Blindfaith” either one!!!

6: 40 sbky: plum yes

6: 41 sbky: plum sorry I wasn’t clear

6: 41 Joey [Facilitator]: Lia, he done that 4 yrs ago.

6: 41 Hannah [Facilitator]: Hi cricket

6: 41 Joey [Facilitator]: sbky, which part?????

6: 42 Cricket [Facilitator]: Sorry all - I kicked myself out that time.... my mistake.

6: 42 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello bittersweet - how are you tonight?

6: 42 Lia: SBKY Paul said he considered it all joy to suffer for Christ! We aren't promised "happy" all the time. happiness is choice like love & forgiveness when we have Christ & chose those things Of course I mess up with choosing joy plenty

6: 42 Plumcrazy: Sbky Is this the part? Knowing you’re right Letting it be I’ll be around If you’ll wait for me If you’ll wait for me

6: 42 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi Bittersweet, how are you tonight?

6: 42 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket, that you!!!!!!

6: 42 Lia: Joey 6: 38 still that's so cool God spoke to you that way!

6: 42 sbky: all it. There’ll be times when it’s best to say nothing at all ...Knowing you’re right Letting it be I’ll be around If you’ll wait for me And I’ll fight for the right to go over the hill If it’ll only mean something to me I will not be persuaded I won

6: 42 Cricket [Facilitator]: Hi Hannah - I left to have dinner with family & you came in before I returned.

6: 43 Hannah [Facilitator]: Hi bittersweet

6: 43 Plumcrazy: Hello bittersweet

6: 43 Joey [Facilitator]: Lia, yes! confirmations at times are SWEET.

6: 43 Cricket [Facilitator]: Joey - If you have trouble with edits, you can forward email to Lisa.

6: 43 Cricket [Facilitator]: Hi Bittersweet.

6: 44 sbky: plum, joey .. I won’t be still I’ll find a way to be free

6: 44 Lia: Hannah 6: 39 they don't like to hear about suffering for doing right or being refined in fire or dying to self it seems

6: 44 Cricket [Facilitator]: All - I shared earlier that I watched Fireproof with family today for the first time. I kept waiting to watch it with them and it took this long. I really enjoyed it of course but so did they.

6: 44 sbky: plum what do you think

6: 44 Joey [Facilitator]: sbky, I do think I heard that on a Christian radio station here!

6: 45 sbky: joey. it just seemed like something that our h's might be thinking

6: 45 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket, that’s awesome!!!!

6: 45 Lia: SBKY tell them God is your husband & you trust Him for all including yours & H's healing & salvation & restoration!

6: 45 Joey [Facilitator]: sbky, doesn’t it say something like thank you for waiting and believing in me.

6: 45 Lia: Joey, 6: 41 yes, but he hasn't removed you!

6: 46 sbky: joey not in his version

6: 46 Lia: bittersweet hello & Merry Christmas darling

6: 46 bittersweet: All: I put a small empty box under my Christmas tree last night.. I put it there in faith that I would get what I wanted for Christmas... THE DOOR CLOSING ON MY HUSBANDS FRIEND. I promise you that if I did not know about her I would be so happy.

6: 47 Plumcrazy: SBKY-Wouldn’t that be great if they WERE

6: 47 sbky: cricket my friend went with me to watch fireproof. she said. "no crying". I said ok. we cried during it. then after she said. " I just kept thinking about what you are going through..

6: 48 Cricket [Facilitator]: Bittersweet - Still we need to remember that this has to be God's timing. We've all been there in feeling if we prayed hard enough things could be in our timing but we have to learn to trust the Lord first and trust His timing.

6: 48 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: H MAS - how are you tonight?

6: 48 Lia: Mas Merry Christmas

6: 49 Hannah [Facilitator]: Hi MAS, how was your day

6: 49 bittersweet: All: he says she is just a very close friend and that he is here with me and he chose me. What is my problem? Every time when I have ask him to stop he says if you are unhappy I should leave. Otherwise he seems madly in love with me again.

6: 49 Joey [Facilitator]: mas, hey sweetheart!!!!!! how was your day?

6: 49 Plumcrazy: MAS-Merry Christmas

6: 49 Cricket [Facilitator]: Bittersweet - We don't want to miss the blessings of today by focusing on prayers that aren't yet answered and miss enjoying the blessings we have received.

6: 49 MAS: Hello Swan. Hello Hannah. How late is chat open tonight?

6: 49 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: MAS - until 9, then we will be closing

6: 50 Plumcrazy: MAS_what have you been doing

6: 50 Lia: Bittersweet keep asking God to glow through you to others esp H & family Ask Holy Spirit guide & direct all you say & do & let friend be her own undoing!

6: 50 MAS: Hello everyone. I've been thinking about all of you.

6: 50 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: MAS - that is 9 my time, for 10 more minutes

6: 50 Joey [Facilitator]: bittersweet, Cricket is right at 6: 49

6: 50 Hannah [Facilitator]: MAS It opened at 1 pm pacific time

6: 50 sbky: all although we aren’t "together" I am thankful my h has been with the kids since yesterday afternoon and then all day today with me and his family. not with anyone else..!!!!

6: 50 MAS: Swan: Oh, only 10 more minutes?

6: 51 Plumcrazy: Cricket@6: 49 You are so right about that

6: 51 Cricket [Facilitator]: MAS - Swan kept chat open longer than promised. It was scheduled to close at almost 2 hrs ago. Lisa said we could stay longer if need be.

6: 51 bittersweet: MAS: Hello . I am going to send you a video which is about a squirrel trying to get over a wall but another squirrel ends up helping and people too. These people represent your chat family who are here for you.

6: 51 MAS: Cricket: That's what I thought. I just took a chance that it would be open.

6: 51 Cricket [Facilitator]: MAS - How did things go for you, I looked for you earlier

6: 51 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket I thought that time was PST, I think that’s what got me turned around!!!

6: 51 Lia: bittersweet Pray hedges of protection around H against all evil & temptation & for friend be out picture Ask God remove spirits of fear & anxiety in you & also for H to have huge desire to put protections around marriage!

6: 52 Plumcrazy: Bittersweet I was going to look at that earlier but forgot will look at it later'

6: 52 Cricket [Facilitator]: MAS - We're glad you stopped by. Swan took care of chat for the first 4 hrs on her own so she really blessed everyone.

6: 52 MAS: Hello Plum.

6: 53 Plumcrazy: MAS_ I have been wondering where you were?

6: 53 MAS: bittersweet: Thank you. I would like to call you and talk .

6: 53 Cricket [Facilitator]: Bittersweet - I am so glad things are going well for you in every other way and I remember your commitment to give this to God & not be an Indian Giver...as you said.

6: 54 Lia: SBKY that is a huge praise. My H went to movies with OW her child & my oldest. First it was my oldest going alone the=n I’m guessing ow said oh that's good idea .Oh well can't wait til she gets sick clinging to H my youngest 2 are sick it!

6: 54 Hannah [Facilitator]: MAS did you see your d today?

6: 54 bittersweet: MAS: You have really been on my heart so much. I kept a Christmas candle burning for you all day yesterday and today. I have been saying little prayers along with that.

6: 54 MAS: All: I was at my mother's today. Otherwise I would have been here for sure. It's been a very difficult day for me. Saw H before he went off for the weekend with OW. Can't stop shaking.

6: 55 MAS: All: Haven't been able to eat, either.

6: 55 Plumcrazy: MAS_ That is nerves I have had that happen before too

6: 55 bittersweet: MAS: Please feel free to call me. I would love that.

6: 55 sbky: lia this has never changed.. we always opened presents next door at his parents. always.. as a family

6: 56 MAS: bittersweet@6: 54 and 6: 55: Thank you. I appreciate that.

6: 56 Joey [Facilitator]: MAS, remember to lay it at the foot of the cross, nail it there and get up from it and rest in Him, let Him comfort YOU.

6: 56 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket, got it - THANKS

6: 56 MAS: Plum: My nerves are very bad today./

6: 57 Joey [Facilitator]: {{{{MAS}}}}

6: 57 Plumcrazy: MAS-Make yourself a milkshake or something

6: 57 Cricket [Facilitator]: Bittersweet - You are making me smile with what you shared.... thank you.

6: 57 MAS: Hannah: Yes, my d was at my mother's house for a few hours this morning. Then she took off with my H to go have lunch with OW.

6: 57 Lia: MAS 6: 54 I am very sorry you are hurting so! Lord, we lift up MAS in agreement for comfort in her pain & healing of her body, mind spirit & soul! Please hold her safely in Your loving arms now & all night may she sleep peacefully with You watching!

6: 58 bittersweet: MAS: Please be careful. I have had that at times and Think I was close to nervous breakdown.

6: 58 Plumcrazy: AMEN|

6: 59 MAS: Plum: I can't eat or drink anything. Everything feels like it wants to come back up.

6: 59 Joey [Facilitator]: all, my family was ready to commit me I was so bad, BUT GOD!!!!!!!!!

6: 59 Plumcrazy: MAS_call one of us if you need to talk. Please try to eat some cereal or toast and eggs

6: 59 Cricket [Facilitator]: MAS - I know your d talked to you about getting help and worrying about you. We are too, it is very dangerous to let your weight get as low as it has (84 lbs). It is so important that you eat. Even if you buy some Ensure to get nutrition,

6: 59 Lia: sbky that's great it's a connection. I don't see any connection between H & I. I became convenient, kind of like business partner. Didn't ever like that. It will not be like that when H comes home God will change us & marriage to immeasurably more!

6: 59 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Ok All, it is about time to say goodnight, so glad to have spent the time with all of you and praying for Blessings abound for all.

7: 00 Lia: Mas TEA it sooths the soul!

7: 00 Joey [Facilitator]: MAS, Cricket is dead on about taking care of yourself girlfriend!!!!!!

7: 00 Hannah [Facilitator]: Swan thank you

7: 00 Plumcrazy: Cricket is right MAS Get some Ensure

7: 00 bittersweet: All: My 2 best friends are angry with me . They say I am in denial and they want to cart me off to nut house for continuing to work this all out. They don't get it but that’s ok.

7: 00 MAS: All: Thank you all so very much for your prayers. I am so blessed to have all of you. God bless you all.

7: 00 Joey [Facilitator]: Swan, thank you again for what you did tonight, God bless you sweetheart! love you bunches!

7: 00 Cricket [Facilitator]: Swan - Please feel free to get some rest. We'll close, you've done more than your share.

7: 01 Hannah [Facilitator]: goodnight all, Happy Boxing Day tomorrow.

7: 01 Plumcrazy: SWAN THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! LOVE YOU

7: 01 MAS: bittersweet: That's what everyone says about me, too.

7: 01 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Cricket - thanks, see you all tomorrow afternoon with Morwenna

7: 01 Cricket [Facilitator]: Hannah - I don't know what Boxing Day is...?

7: 01 Plumcrazy: Hannah Goodnight

7: 01 Cricket [Facilitator]: Swan - Thanks again.

7: 01 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket, British holiday?

7: 02 MAS: I will talk to you all tomorrow. Good night everyone, and thank you.

7: 02 Lia: MAS 6: 57 it's all deceit from enemy my dtr hugged ow for gift my H bought our dtr. My dtr is doing what needs to do to survive that's all plus pray against satan trapping dtr too. satan wants destroy all in family but he will lose!!!!!

7: 02 sbky: joey someone told me it is all the boxes from Christmas

7: 02 Plumcrazy: Well Hannah is English holiday

7: 02 bittersweet: MAS: I love you and GOD has got this. You can do it.

7: 02 Cricket [Facilitator]: Joey - Thanks.

7: 03 Joey [Facilitator]: sbky, sounds good to me : )

7: 03 MAS: Lia: Yes, I know. And thank you.

7: 03 Cricket [Facilitator]: Plum - I figured it was an English holiday but wasn't aware of it.

7: 03 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket, thank you darling!!

7: 03 MAS: bittersweet: You are such a dear. I will talk to you soon.

7: 03 Plumcrazy: The name derives from the tradition of giving seasonal gifts, on the day after Christmas, to less wealthy people and social inferiors, which was later extended to various workpeople such as laborers and servants.

7: 03 Cricket [Facilitator]: MAS - When my Mom was going thru Chemo, she was able to drink Ensure and it has a lot of vitamins in it.

Jo says goodbye...

7: 04 Joey [Facilitator]: Hey Jo!!!!

7: 04 MAS: Cricket: I will try to see if I can get some.

7: 04 Lia: Cricket thank you for loving MAS enough to speak the truth MAS you must not yield & let the enemy get you trapped. You are dtr of the King! Don't forget it. I've been exactly where you are God WILL get you through!!!!! My dtr couldn't stand seeing m

7: 04 Plumcrazy: In the United Kingdom it certainly became a custom of the nineteenth century Victorians for tradesmen to collect their 'Christmas boxes' or gifts in return for good and reliable service throughout the year on the day after Christmas. [1].

7: 04 Lia: Mas cont waste away! Neither can yours!

7: 05 MAS: Lia: I can't believe how our children can just blindly accept the OW the way that they do!

7: 05 Cricket [Facilitator]: MAS - You have to force yourself to eat, if your weight continues to drop, I’m worried you will be hospitalized. We think that this will get our H's attention, but it really doesn't help. Normally they would care, but now they run from the stress.

7: 05 Joey [Facilitator]: Plum, thanks for that info, that’s cool!

7: 05 sbky: plum lia I am on facebook if yall want to talk more.

7: 05 Plumcrazy: MAS-see if your grocery store has delivery service

7: 06 Plumcrazy: Sbky-Ok maybe

7: 06 Joey [Facilitator]: MAS, make sure you wrap up and stay warm if you go out for anything!

7: 06 Cricket [Facilitator]: MAS - They are so worried about losing their father that they accept anything just to hang on.

7: 06 MAS: Cricket: My H says that he is very concerned about my weight loss and he wants me to do something about it. Says he can't continue to deal with me if I continue on the way I am.

7: 06 Plumcrazy: MAS—Don’t make us come and force feed you!!!

7: 07 Joey [Facilitator]: sbky, do I have you on fb? can't remember

7: 07 Lia: MAS Yes satan blinds kids too. Pray for HS to keep dtr's eyes open to truth & your H is seeing guilt even more as you slip away! Besides you are valuable by yourself God made you in His image He NEVER screws up

7: 07 Lia: SBKY we should all sign into FB

7: 07 sbky: I don’t think so. do you have plum or hannah or lia they have me on there..

7: 07 Cricket [Facilitator]: MAS - Sadly they look at our emotional pain & health issues as too needy so we really need to use that as another reason to get strong.

7: 08 Lia: Thanks again Swan & all God Bless & Merry Christmas

7: 08 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket, that’s one thing, my H seen that he threw me with something I wasn't expecting him to say last time I saw him.

7: 08 Lia: Joey I have SBKY I can send you a suggestion for SBKY if need be

7: 08 MAS: Lia: I am so sick because I just found out that H had OW for a year.

7: 09 sbky: lia thanks. because I can’t send any personal info to let her find me

7: 09 Lia: MAS Cricket is right they see it as pressure & guilt.

7: 09 Cricket [Facilitator]: MAS - Try to remember that nothing has really changed, in a way, it means that your H has traveled through this tunnel further than you thought. When we think about time frame, in a way it can be a positive that he's further along even though the dishonesty hurts.

7: 10 Lia: SBKY no problem will do

7: 10 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket, AMEN!

7: 10 MAS: Cricket: Could you please elaborate on that?

7: 10 sbky: mas cricket is right.

7: 10 sbky: Joey if you add me you will see my d jersey I framed for her. it is from 6th grade. they had a perfect season. she cried

7: 11 Cricket [Facilitator]: MAS - Generally we expect mlc to last about 5 yrs, can be a little shorter or can be longer. The time frame starts when they give in to the mlc. So learning that your H had been involved with an OW a year longer, means he is further into the process.

7: 12 MAS: Cricket: He said he was never going to tell me. Even my d knew about her and has even spent time at her house!

7: 12 Lia: MAS I find I have to let my kids see ugliness for selves & pray their protection & open eyes & also pray H & OW will start to settle too much the sooner the better & let the battle in that filthy lie of a relationship begin unravel & end !!!!!!

7: 12 sbky: cricket what is the estimate timeframe before we find out. I have read about 18 months..

7: 13 MAS: Lia: I pray for you and your family.

7: 13 Cricket [Facilitator]: sbky - I’m not sure that there is a good estimate of how long before we find out, at least that I know. This varies so much. I know I can look back & see signs my H was in mlc before I realized it. I didn't know enough about mlc then.

7: 14 Lia: MAS She's right I am almost sure H started with ow long before left . It feels sickening because deception, & seems they still have things so easy, but satan IS FATHER of LIES Grass is NEVER greener & God DOES NOT Bless sin & wickedness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7: 14 MAS: All: Today my d was talking about a book she was reading. I think it was called, "The God Delusion." It was written by an atheist.

7: 14 sbky: cricket that is ok. any timeframe is just an estimate each person and each situation is different

7: 15 Joey [Facilitator]: MAS, pray scriptures against anything she brings up in the name of Jesus!!!!!

7: 16 Lia: MAS for now if it helps my lawyer says living well is best revenge, Vengeance is MINE sayeth the LORD God said He will repay! But You want H to cry out like David did in Ps 51 for mercy & salvation then God will reconcile too! Live well honey!

7: 16 MAS: Lia: I know what a hard time you are having and all you are going through as well. We really need to be strong during all of this, I know.

7: 16 Joey [Facilitator]: All, it’s time to close for tonight. rest in the Lord, He wants us to know He is MORE than able to take care of us and all this! sweet sleep!!!

7: 17 MAS: Thank you all so very much for your prayers!

7: 17 sbky: Goodnight all.

7: 18 Cricket [Facilitator]: sbky - The big thing is that once they give in to mlc, it the time frame we hear most about.

7: 18 Cricket [Facilitator]: MAS - The only reason they try to keep it from us as they don't want to hurt us and feel guilty.

7: 18 Cricket [Facilitator]: ALL -It looks like I’m going to have internet connection problems again. My modem has frozen at my sister's so I hope you get this.

7: 18 Cricket [Facilitator]: I'll log out & come back.

7: 19 Cricket [Facilitator]: Okay -it looks like Joey took care of closing it.

1: 13 Rosco: I had a mid life crisis I guess, and to put it bluntly I had an affair almost four years ago. College sweetheart. She wanted attention and I was frustrated in my marriage. But had not said anything to her.


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Chat Room Acronyms

Guests often use acronyms to speed up their conversations. Here are a few examples for you:

I have been S from my H for 2 years. We have 3 children, S8, S13, and D16.
I have been Separated from my Husband for 2 years. We have 3 children, Son age 8, Son age 13, Daughter age 16.
  OW = Other Woman   AW  = Adulteress Woman   W  = Wife   OP = other person
  OM  = Other Man   AM  = Adulteress Man   H  = Husband   LBS = Left behind spouse
  D = divorce or daughter   S = son or sister or separated   XW  = ex-wife   GF = Girl Friend
  DIL = daughter-in-law   SIL = Sister-in-law or Son-in-law   XH  = ex-husband   BF = Boy Friend
  MIL = mother-in-law   MLC = Midlife Crisis   PG = Praise God   CS = Child Support
  FIL = father-in-law   MLD = Midlife Dimensions Ministry   PTL = Praise the Lord   ED = Erectile Dysfunction
  w/ = with   w/e = weekend   b/c = because   
  w/o = without   BRB / be right back   LOL / laughing out loud