Midlife Dimensions


Mother's Day - 5/10/09

6:01 Joey [Facilitator]: Welcome everyone. Happy Mothers Day! Holy Spirit have Your way tonight!


6:02 Yoli: Joey: I'm okay, just trying to come to terms with my worst fears being confirmed. Joey: Well, my older daughter came in and spent the weekend with us. Apparently this is top secret and I’m not supposed to know anything about it. However, for my h to be going out of town when his brother was coming in didn't make any sense. I suspected something was up. Older daughter confirmed it. H does have a girlfriend. It seems that girlfriend basically lives wit him. Daughter said she's really ugly & when she asked h what he saw in her, she's smart and a runner. He took her to meet his family, siblings and extended family. I think he also took her around the little town in west Texas to see. She's never been out there. It seems that younger daughter found her things at his house & that's how she found out.



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6:01 Rollercoasterider: Good evening and Happy Mother's Day

6:01 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi Cricket and RC, how are you?

6:01 Cricket [Facilitator]: And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another --and all the more as you see the Day approaching. Hebrews 10:24-25

6:02 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi Yoli! How are you tonight?

6:02 Cricket [Facilitator]: Good evening all - hope you had a Mother's Day with love and blessings.

6:02 Yoli: Joey: I'm okay, just trying to come to terms with my worst fears being confirmed.

6:03 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:02 Yoli: what’s that and how can we help?

6:04 TiredB2: good evening

6:04 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi TB, how are you?

6:04 TiredB2: Joey I am great how are you

6:04 Cricket [Facilitator]: And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Hebrews 11:6

6:05 Yoli: Joey: Well, my older daughter came in and spent the weekend with us. Apparently this is top secret and I’m not supposed to know anything about it. However, for my h to be going out of town when his brother was coming in didn't make any sense. I

6:05 TiredB2: Cricket: beautiful verse

6:05 Cricket [Facilitator]: All - I received these two verses (and more) today and felt they applied to us. I am so thankful that we know Him, I can't imagine this journey alone.

6:05 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:04 TiredB2: I’m good thanks :)

:05 sbky: all. hello

6:06 TiredB2: I had a great week end with my kiddos..... my youngest was here with all of us...... it was great....

6:06 Joey [Facilitator]: Sbky, hey girl, how are you?

6:06 TiredB2: hi sbky

6:06 Yoli: Joey: suspected something was up. Older daughter confirmed it. H does have a girlfriend. It seems that girlfriend basically lives wit him. Daughter said she's really ugly & when she asked h what he saw in her, she's smart and a runner. He took her to meet his family, siblings and extended family. I think he also took her around the little town in west Texas to see. She's never been out there. It seems that younger daughter found her things at his house & that's how she found out.

6:06 TiredB2: Cricket: you are so right we sure Need Him.... thank you

6:06 sbky: joey and cricket what is your opinion of why the h doesn’t file for a divorce.. especially after being gone three years

6:08 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:06 Yoli: don't focus on her! she's only a band-aid to H internal issues.

6:08 Yoli: Joey: cont-Older daughter had lunch plans changed with dad so that woman could come along. A lot of things make sense now to me.

6:08 Cricket [Facilitator]: 6:06 Yoli: It's been my experience that they do seem to have an OW when they leave us. They generally are the opposite of what they're normally attracted to. It's really not the person, just a need to act out the fantasy and to feel young & desirable. They keep this from us out of guilt.

6:09 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: Gary Neumann, relationship expert, was on Oprah about 2 months ago plugging his new book--can't recall the title off-hand. But there are a lot of statistics in it and one is about the OW being more attractive than the LBS [cont'd]

6:09 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:06 sbky: Anna has a restored marriage and her H was gone a second time about that long and never filed. it was a safety net from being pushed by the OW.

6:09 sbky: cricket my h told me before he left .. that ow that he had ea was so much like me. easy to talk to

6:09 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: ...only 12% of men said the OW was more attractive...I've got the book pdf on my hard drive, I'll go look up the title now

6:09 Yoli: Cricket: I remember the conversations you and I would have about OW. I really believed that he didn't have one, but I think deep down I knew he did.

6:10 Cricket [Facilitator]: Yoli - Remember the OW is just a band aid for their depression and confusion. They think that the OW will lift their stress & depression, but in time they find this isn't true. The issue is inside them.

6:10 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: Title - Truth About Cheating By Gary Neuman

6:10 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:08 Yoli: There being another person is normal for MLCers

6:10 Yoli: RCR: Thanks. I will check it out.

6:11 helpme: Hello everyone

6:11 Cricket [Facilitator]: Yoli - It really didn't matter if you knew, the pain is still the same and sometimes it's helpful to deal with a little at a time. You're stronger now and understand more so better prepared to deal with this.

6:11 Yoli: Joey, Cricket: I know that you guys have said this many times before, I think I’m just shocked & want to throw up at the thought of him being with another woman. It seems that she's 46, never been married, and an only child. Older daughter said she

6:11 Joey [Facilitator]: Help, how are you tonight???

6:12 TiredB2: hey helpme...

6:12 Cricket [Facilitator]: 6:09 Yoli: The main reason they keep the OW so secret is their own guilt and also not wanting to hurt us. If they didn't care about our feelings, they wouldn't hide her.

6:12 sbky: joey and cricket. how do we KNOW this is mlc. and not just over..

6:12 helpme: Joey; Hello. Kind of tired, long day. Got a surprise visit from my youngest son, that was good.

6:12 Yoli: Joey, Cricket: cont-was rude & ugly to her. But daughter gave it right back to her. Daughter also told me that SIL is always trying to talk to her about what happened with us. She doesn't want to talk to her about it because she knows that they all

6:12 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: I know it's difficult, but cohabitation with the OW has it’s benefits for us as Standers. I've seen those who don't cohabitate longer in neutrality more. Those who cohabitate may or may not seem nastier--spew a lot and such, but it [cont'd]

6:13 helpme: TiredB2; Hello :)

6:13 sbky: all I spent yesterday evening so mad. because h took kids two hours to a college softball game and then to a very expensive restaurant. I hadn’t had cs in a while. and then today. I get some..

6:13 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:12 sbky: I took the exam on Jim's homepage and answered the best I could for my H. A Dr. confirmed my H was MLC, believe it or not!

6:13 Yoli: Joey, Cricket: cont-feel that I’m to blame for everything. It's so typical that I feel that I’m reading this about someone else in chat.

6:13 TiredB2: Cricket: in the recent days did your h ever say in one way or another that the reason for no intimacy is that he is trying to find himself or that may it was because he loved you too much at first?

6:14 helpme: vsingh; Hello

6:14 TiredB2: vsingh hello

6:14 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: ...seems like they may be nastier. Cohabitating means they get the full experience of being with the OW and the fantasy fades faster. The hard part is that this may still take a few years. [cont'd]

6:14 vsingh: Hello all

6:14 Cricket [Facilitator]: sbky - Some mlcrs know deep inside that there is something special with us. They are fighting the depression, confusion and anger. They try to convince themselves that it's over, it's all our fault, etc. But they know something is wrong inside & they aren't quite ready to file for Divorce. It's really a good thing that your H hasn't needed to go there.

6:14 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi Vsingh, how are you tonight?

6:14 sbky: joey my family dr at the time was a friend of ours.. not best friends but we knew them. and when I went to him.. (my back was out) told him what was going on. he said he thinks my h is severely depressed.. the dr is a good enough friend he tried cont

6:15 sbky: joey cont. to call him and talk to you..

6:15 TiredB2: hello geebo2b

6:15 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: Sweetheart lived with the OW and left her multiple times. It took a few years and I’m not ready to say that he's through the MLC tunnel yet...I hope so, but I keep myself prepared for whatever.

6:15 Yoli: RCR: Yeah, daughter told me that she's completely in control of him & everything that he does. She couldn't stand being around my daughters. Typical jealousy especially when daughters are prettier than she is.

6:15 vsingh: Joey: I am okay

6:15 sbky: 'cricket so it is a good sign

6:15 vsingh: all: Happy Mothers Day to the mothers

6:15 helpme: vsingh; If you would, say a prayer for my dil, their dog got attacked & she had to put it to sleep, she's taking it pretty hard & with son gone it is just adding to the stress of all this.

6:16 sbky: vsingh thank you.. and happy mothers day to all of you that are mothers..

6:16 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi Gee, how are you tonight?

6:16 vsingh: helpme :of course I will pray, a pet is just like family

6:16 Yoli: RCR: He's a lot more forthcoming with his money to the girls. He responds to some of my emails and texts sooner than before. Nastiness is the same. Husband looks really bad. Had lots of problems with kidney stones. OW was conveniently with him & took

6:17 Cricket [Facilitator]: 6:13 TiredB2: My H has never mentioned intimacy (or lack of). He's talked about the OW being a mistake and he's asked if I think we're getting back together, but not specifics. I do think that he is embarrassed at how out of shape he's gotten the past few years. He did say back in July that he knew he needed time to get his head together, to find out who ........ (his name) ... is.

6:17 Yoli: RCE: cont-him to ER at 3 am. He needs someone to take care of him, but why this woman.?

6:17 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi Cindy! how are you?

6:17 geebo2b: Hi Joey: I am doing ok..just a bit tired

6:17 geebo2b: How are things?

6:17 helpme: vsingh; Yes, they (my son & dil) got the dog right before they got married, 7 yrs. ago. It was certainly like family.

6:17 CindyJ: Hi Joey and everyone!

6:17 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:16 vsingh: your right, pets are like family.

6:18 Cricket [Facilitator]: Sbky - Yes it's a good sign he hasn't filed. Some do need to take this step as they look for a quick fix for their symptoms. But Jim has said that whatever we can do to stall the divorce process, the better & I agree

6:18 sbky: helpme we lost our black lab that we had had for 11 years.. during all of this.. I still miss her

6:18 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi SF, how are you tonight?

6:18 Yoli: Cricket: Wow, he's asked you if you think you all are getting back together? That's amazing.

6:18 vsingh: helpme: let her know her pet is watching over her in heaven

6:19 geebo2b: All; been a busy day..it is kind of hard on Mother's day as my mom died just a little over a year ago..then my sister just about 2 weeks ago

6:19 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi Swan, how are you?

6:19 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: I have answers to Why Her, but they are long...let me go find and see if I can post something short

6:19 CindyJ: sbky, we lost our black lab, Cody, also and I miss her so much.

6:19 TiredB2: Cricket: thanks...... I seems as Rollercoasterider says that he may be exiting the tunnel of MLC, he is trying to find himself, understands it’s not my fault, that it is in him... still gets cold toward me, but he has grown so much lately.....

6:19 sbky: cricket I am just getting pressure from my sister. (who I cherish and respect her opinion),, that he has moved on and I need to also

6:19 vsingh: geebo: they are both watching over you, they are never gone

6:19 helpme: sbky; I keep reminding dil she has the Lord helping her through all this, but she is yet to grasp that, but know she's going through a tough time.

6:20 Yoli: Cricket: About your response about how I’m strong. Well, initially, I think I was in shock. Then I've been crying because I feel like it was an attack on my heart.

6:20 Cricket [Facilitator]: Yoli -Generally OW have their own baggage. They pursue married men due to something in their past & their own low self esteem. They seem to spot men in crisis who are vulnerable & reach out to them. Our H's respond to someone flirting & making them feel desirable & young again. It's really not the person their attracted to, but that feeling when they're feeling old & like life is over.

6:20 TiredB2: cont: try to cherish our moments and be there and continue to grow in me

6:20 geebo2b: All: on the blessing side..I am writing music for a Dance performance for a group in Synapse Dance Theater group from SMCC. I just finished the music and they love it.

6:20 sbky: cindy I found a black lab

6:20 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:19 geebo2b: doesn't seem like it’s been a year already. I’m sorry today has been so hard, thought of you earlier today.

6:20 geebo2b: All: yes I am getting paid for the sound score. It will be performed at the end of May

6:20 sbky: cindy I found a black lab Christmas ornament that year

6:21 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:20 geebo2b: that’s great!

6:21 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: Often there are needs that you are not or were not meeting that the OW is meeting, but these are not due to spousal neglect, rather they are due to your husband's refusal to allow you to meet these needs.

6:21 Swanlake: Hey Joey - doing good. Talked to both of my children and grandson today, heard a really good sermon at church, just having a good day.

6:21 geebo2b: Joey: yes..all the 'Mother's Day' adds I get in my e-mail leasing up till MD has been hard

6:21 vsingh: geebo: that is great

6:21 helpme: sbky; I love my black lab, he's my baby & has been here with me through thick & thin bless his heart.

6:21 Yoli: Cricket: Yes that would be true but the woman is 46 and never been married. That in itself is really strange, don't you think? It says something about her.

6:21 CindyJ: sbky, I love it! I now see black labs quite often....real or not.

6:21 geebo2b: Joey: Yes, that has been a blessing and a good 'diversion' from all the other stuff

6:21 Cricket [Facilitator]: 6:20 Yoli: It is an attack on your heart but if it had all hit at once, it would have been even more difficult. Of course you hurt, but your better able to deal with this now and you know that it's not about the OW... she really is nothing except a band aide for their illness, like a drug they hope will numb their pain. The OW won't do that & your H will see this in time.

6:21 TiredB2: geebo2b that is a great thing...... I love music, but just cannot master playing it....

6:22 TiredB2: hi ya Cindy, steadfast and Swan

6:22 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: that was a paste...since counselor's ask what needs we (LBS) failed to meet. The OW is our opposite because they are running away from us and what we represent [cont'd]

6:22 sbky: helpme mine was just a farm dog. but always there when I went outside..very smart dog and good guard dog.. let you know when someone or something was outside. and after that long we knew what each bark meant

6:22 TiredB2: and hi to Lia and Pam

6:22 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi Lia and Pam, how are you guys?

6:22 Yoli: RCR, Well I did everything for him but wipe him. I always thought that demonstrating my love for him was good, but evidently it wasn't.

6:22 CindyJ: Joey, I hurt myself today doing cartwheels with my nieces and nephews. I put ice on it but it's hard to sit and easier to lie down. What was I thinking?!!

6:22 sbky: helpme. we do have a daughter of hers. but she isn’t the same

6:22 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: the OW is our opposite because the MLCer has regressed in maturity and the OW is a match to this level of maturity. We are not meeting the wants (different than needs) because we have boundaries

6:22 pam: Hi Joey and all. Happy Mothers day

6:23 Cricket [Facilitator]: 6:21 Yoli: It fits with the fact that she is carrying her own baggage & feeling unworthy. She's probably been pursuing other married men. I met an OW who explained she was abused by her Dad & her Mom didn't protect. She was an OW for a long time due to her childhood pain but is now healed, Christian, married with children. She confessed her past to me knowing my situation

6:23 Rollercoasterider: Yoli/All: sorry if I’m missing comments...I'll try and rad to see if I missed something important

6:23 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:22 CindyJ: LOL, I can pix that!!!! hope you can move tomorrow or should I say sit down!!!! :)

6:24 Lia: Happy mother's day all! Sometimes I wonder if this is one of the harder holidays!

6:24 vsingh: Pam: happy mother’s day, I have not chatted with you before

6:24 sbky: all I painted some trim to put in my living room now that my hardwood floors are finished. got a first coat on everything.. will put it down maybe next weekend

6:24 CindyJ: Joey, it was fun but I’m hurtin' now. : )

6:24 pam: Joey ok I guess. it has been a kind of hard day.

6:24 Cricket [Facilitator]: 6:22 Yoli: They are in pain, at the top of mountain, feeling old & like life is over. When OW pursues them, they are drawn to that fantasy of their unlived teenage life. They're trying to feel young again & this woman is feeding their ego. It wouldn't matter who they were, it's not them they are attracted to.

6:24 Yoli: Cricket: O yeah, she's got baggage. Apparently she comes from Jewish background, is an only child, and 46 years old and never married. Maybe her parents are putting pressure on her. But I would think she's beyond the child-rearing age.

6:24 helpme: sbky; My doggie is a bit rotten but will say he doesn't let anyone near me if I’m leery of them...and he does know! I love having him also because I cannot hear well & he lets me know when someone or something is around.

6:24 vsingh: lia: Happy Mother’s Day. I enjoyed it with my son

6:25 pam: Hi vsingh I don't get a chance to get on much. I am usually working.

6:25 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:22 Yoli: MLC is triggered and comes from issues prior to you coming into their lives. You can't stop it with what you did in your relationship. It got to come out.

6:25 sbky: helpme when h was still home. we was all outside working and I said something to her.. and my h said don’t talk to her like she is a human.. my fil said. .. well she sure seems to understand her

6:26 Lia: All: my oldest called to wish Happy MD & said might come by, but didn't she lives with ow. My H didn't even bring son home until after noon & he didn't even bother helping kids get as much as card & didn't even come in to say Happy MD I just started

6:26 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: Cricket is right, it's not the person in the OW that the MLCer is attracted to. But the MLCer sees himself reflected in her and this is an attractive force. It's that same feeling many have when they first meet...like you've known [cont'd]

6:26 helpme: sbky; I talk to my dog all the time and do believe he understands!

6:26 Yoli: Cricket: I know this but it was tough for me yesterday & didn't sleep much last night. Older daughter told h that he would be smart to not take OW to any of younger daughter's graduation activities. I’m so tempted to send him message about her, but

6:26 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: ...each other forever. I call it hormones!

6:26 sbky: helpme. my h knows she did.. he was just being a pain

6:26 Yoli: Cricket: cont-know that it will only make things worse. So I won't.

6:27 Cricket [Facilitator]: Pam - I’m so glad you joined us. It's been a long time. Hope you had a nice mothers day.

6:27 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:19 sbky: don't worry about your sister, if she doesn’t understand MLC, she won't get it and beyond that, what is God telling you?

6:27 Lia: All cont: crying. I’m still the mother of his kids as much as he'd like be to either drop dead, move to mars or be institutionalized. I've always been involved with all they did, big on vitamins & healthy foods & exercise, did all homework w/ them

6:27 sbky: joey.. God told me the second night of this. that it would all be okay.. and I feel I am suppose to let it be and give him time..

6:27 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:19 TiredB2: This is good, continue to pray for him and focus on being what God wants in you.

6:28 helpme: sbky; When I ask him if he wants a bath he goes, stands in the shower & waits on me to get there...my kids wouldn't even do that for me :)

6:28 pam: Cricket it was ok. Son and daughter actually celebrated with me yesterday. Son had to go home today and daughter was home studying for a final tomorrow.

6:28 sbky: Helpme I would love if the kids did that.

6:28 Cricket [Facilitator]: 6:19 TiredB2: This is a process. They are trying to climb their way out of the tunnel, but they slip some times and fall back in and then struggle up the ladder more. Little slips & falls, but in time they will make it all the way & be fully home healed. Be patient & encourage and affirm as you can. Have faith, he's working his way home.

6:28 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: Re 6:21 to Cricket... what does her being 46 and never married have to do with it...not challenging, I want to know. Do you know why she's never married? Does not being married mean she does not have a trail of broken relationships...?

6:28 sbky: all. I got 2 B;s in my college classes and didn’t have to put out much effort. so I am trilled

6:28 TiredB2: Joey thanks...... there just seems to be some many more questions as time goes on and especially when you see progress and them coming back to life.....

6:28 vsingh: lia: I know it is hard, but know God's protection is on your kids and they love you

6:29 Yoli: Cricket, Joey: I tried to talk to older daughter about MLC and even mentioned Bob and Charlyne, but she told me that h had too much pride to ever admit that he made mistake.

6:29 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:27 sbky: that’s what YOU hold to then sweetheart don't worry about what anyone else says, Just say I’m doing as the Lord is leading me to do!

6:29 sbky: yoli I am afraid of that too. that he is to prideful to admit it

6:29 Rollercoasterider: Lia: I’m catching up with reading...but we got cut off on Friday and I wanted to continue where we left off

6:29 pam: all has anyone every gotten kicked off of Charlyne cares?

6:30 Joey [Facilitator]: Hi Jo!!!

6:30 TiredB2: Cricket thanks..... what about my disbelief of his words, he has lied so much I have trouble believing him

6:30 sbky: Joey it is hard sometimes.. to know I am right and not just to darn stubborn to let it be over

6:30 Yoli: RCR: Exactly my point - a trail of broken relationships. Maybe she was reaching an age when her biological clock was ticking & she pushed hard but ad no takers. You never know.

6:30 Lia: Cricket to Yoli 6:24 Is 45 a little young for MLC?, yet my H had lots success early & always has had own way & too much independence. I think I didn't see how his being driven & having sooo many hobbies & toys as seeking & avoiding behaviors for

6:30 Yoli: sbky: Yea that pride is quite the stronghold. I actually do pray to break this stronghold.

6:30 vsingh: lia: my was 41 when it hit

6:31 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:30 Lia: my H started at 32

6:31 sbky: lia my h was 38 when he moved out..

6:31 Cricket [Facilitator]: sbky - Our friends & loved ones think they are helping & worry about us, but they don't understand mlc. They are just protective of us. I would tell her you are moving on & working on yourself. You need time for healing & the worst thing for you would be to jump into another relationship. By looking at areas we can grow, we will improve our relationships (Jim said, if H returns we'll be better, but we'll be better regardless of the future)

6:31 Jo2: Yoli - You can tell your d that my h had a lot of pride and 'I' thought he would never admit error ---but something is changing and we have had some very good talks. Nothing is impossible to God. We just have to realize God is in control.

6:31 Lia: Cricket Cont: feelings inadequacy, as well as ego, pride, etc..... Amazing how many conflicting emotions they have It comes out as conflicting statements too!

6:31 sbky: all my h was raised on a farm and has always been so responsible.. never lived alone.. I think this had a lot to do with his

6:31 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:30 sbky: when you know it’s God, you know. hold to that.

6:32 Yoli: Cricket, Joey: It seems that he's content to spend any amount on her. Took her on an Alaskan cruise. Younger daughter has volleyball tournament in Orlando that he's taking daughter to, so I wouldn't be surprised if OW went.

6:32 Jo2: Yoli - Cricket is right at 6:31

6:33 Lia: Roller 6:28 My H ow 43 & only married 43 years & yes string of broken relationships, never any longer than 3-4years

6:33 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: Regarding too much pride. I hear that from almost every LBS...directly or they tell me (as you said) that someone else said that about their MLCer. Everyone thinks their MLCer will be the one that is too stubborn

6:33 Yoli: Jo2:You have a restored marriage right? That's why you've been able to have these talks with you h?

6:33 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:32 Yoli: that’s normal pattern!

6:33 sbky: joey she is just trying to protect me.. she was the oldest girl and my mom always had to work. so she was my "little mommy"

6:34 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: 6:30 If this is the case it is indicative that she is not ready for mature relationship. She's a typical MLC OW--that's a good thing for you

6:34 Jo2: Yoli - I had to learn to give up all logic about what h was doing and focus on my relationship with the Lord. By an act of the will we can do it; sadly some of US have TOO MUCH PRIDE in OUR LOGIC, too. Ask yourself; I had to ask myself.

6:34 Yoli: Joey: What is normal? That he doesn't seem to mind spending money on OW when he always threw fits with me? He's been very generous even with daughters. It's just sickening. I think OW is just a gold-digger.

6:34 Cricket [Facilitator]: 6:29 Yoli: I'd explain to your D that you are talking to very wise people (Jim & Bob) who are experts in this field & have been there. They share that anyone can work their way home. We have many in our group who have restored marriages, all say mlcr was stubborn/prideful but they came home & are restoring marriages. My H is a Taurus & very stubborn/prideful but connecting now.

6:34 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:33 sbky: Tell her she doesn’t have to worry that God is holding you and your in the best hands - His!

6:35 Lia: Yoli & roller 6:33 PRIDE big factor, but not for God, It may be scary to us because it was Lucifer’s downfall, but God can humble anyone, look @ Saul, David, Sampson, etc.....

6:35 Cricket [Facilitator]: Yoli - Sometimes we can't change their mind, just tell them we are doing what we feel called to do. This is how we need to respond to this journey. Also most do understand we need time for healing & growth.

6:35 sbky: all, my daughter broke down and told me. that her friends get to see her dad as much as she does.. he coaches softball and that is about all the time they get with him

6:35 steadfast: All: was trying to get caught up and now want to wish you a Happy Mother's day

6:36 Cricket [Facilitator]: GEEBO -

6:36 Yoli: Joey: What do you mean?

6:36 Jo2: YOLI - No, no restored marriage. Just many years of trusting God and now finally seeing that something is changing. I had to die to self and stop "thinking" so much. We all MUST do that. God does not need us to fix this, only ourselves.

6:36 geebo2b: Cricket

6:36 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: It is normal for MLCers to make a big show with the OW relationship.

6:36 geebo2b: Cricket??

6:36 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:34 Yoli: it’s all fantasy, no care, no responsibility. My H did it and so has most all others spouses on here gone through the same pattern.

6:36 Lia: Rollercoaster about NPD I’m seeing there are specific ways to communicate with NPD It seems my oldest is turning that way too but almost more a histrionic PD She has many psycho-somatic complaints these days poor kids head is mixed up

6:37 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:36 Jo2: Amen

6:37 Cricket [Facilitator]: Geebo - I shared your praises with my Christian Friend who prays with you She was thrilled & said that it's wonderful that the Lord sent praises in bunches for you. That you had bunches of difficulty/pain but you received praises in bunches too. PTL - She also said to write the praises down & put them in your blessing basket.

6:37 Yoli: RCR: It is normal? Is that why he was comfortable enough to take her to meet extended family? It makes me sick to think of her sleeping with h in the same bed that I slept in wit him.

6:37 sbky: rcr. Mine hides who ever he is with. but his parents would kill him if he let that stuff be known.

6:37 vsingh: Lia: it may be good to take them to counseling

6:37 Jo2: YOLI - What do you think about what I said?

6:37 Rollercoasterider: Lia: Friday you referenced the word alienator...this got me so excited. were you using this to mean OW? I recently decided I want to use that term because it can refer to both genders...but have not seen anyone else using it.

6:38 geebo2b: Cricket : I will actually I will write them and place them on my prayer altar so that I am always reminded when I pray

6:38 Cricket [Facilitator]: Geebo - She also was thrilled that the Lord began answering your prayer to feel his presence before we sent your prayer request to the group. He knew your prayers first.

6:38 Rollercoasterider: Lia: Regarding Personality Disorders. Then you referenced that PDs are common to OWs. Again this is something I've noticed and am writing about...but have not seen anyone make the connection before...where did you hear it?

6:39 steadfast: Joey/Cricket; found Mother's Day and more recent weeks difficult. Anniversary is in 3 days, got engaged 20 years ago at Easter and h Birthday was this week. Son doesn't acknowledge Mother's Day and has told me just a corporate holiday and money making

6:39 Yoli: Jo2:I think it's amazing that things are happening for the better with you. This is just crazy. How long was it for you to reach a point where your h could talk to you about this?

6:39 Cricket [Facilitator]: Geebo - When I talked with her today, I told her I asked you to write them down & she couldn't tell me enough how important she felt that was. She went thru a terrible journey herself & said how much it helped to go back and remind herself of blessings

6:39 Rollercoasterider: Yoli: Yup it's normal; completely classic MLC

6:39 geebo2b: Cricket: That truly is a blessing yes..and I recognize that touch from the Lord

6:39 sbky: all. I was so disappointed in h this past week.. my bil's father died.. we live in a small town. he knew this and has known my bil for 23 years. and my family has been good to him. even after he has left. and he never showed up to the funeral home..

6:39 Cricket [Facilitator]: Steadfast - Anniversary dates and engagement dates always trigger a difficult time.

6:39 sbky: cont. even my mil came. but he never did. not just for a minute.

6:40 Lia: RCR: There used to be a tort law to sue OP for Alienation of affection, many states abolished it after women start to sue ow instead men the OM probably because the "good ol' boy's club of male lawyers, judges & such didn't want mistresses sued!

6:40 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:39 sbky: may not be able to handle the fact of death right now! part of growing older.

6:40 steadfast: Cricket/Joey: S was thinking about giving his d a Birthday Card. Never gave me one last year. Says why Mother's Day celebrated as there is no Kid's Day of recognition--he is 18 It makes me sad.

6:40 Jo2: YOLI - 8 years -- it seemed so long before but now I realize it had to take this long. If only you can see this as a process that will make him a more healthy person and that you will have learned some things you did not know you needed to learn....

6:40 Cricket [Facilitator]: Geebo - She said that I made her day by sharing your "God stories" as she calls them. She was thrilled and giving Lord the glory.

6:41 Rollercoasterider: sbky: some hide, but often they have a few lives and display the OW publicly in those that are accepting. Each is different. It is the depth of the relationship. Each person exhibits that depth in different ways. Being public is common, not guaranteed

6:41 Yoli: Cricket, Joey: I sent h text telling him that I get to celebrate Mother’s Day because of him & that I thanked him for this. also told him how much I loved him and that no matter how much anger & resentment he had toward me, it would change my love

6:41 sbky: joey. that is what I thought. but just today.. a big guy in our community died.. and this is one of his friends fil.. I wonder if he will show up there.. the guy that died owned half the town.. and was mowing his lawn and flipped the rider

6:41 vsingh: all I have to help my son with something. I pray that we all receive the strength we need

6:41 Lia: RCR Maybe since we lack morals anymore, the OP would think twice if they could get sued. Unfortunately it doesn't exist in NY, but some states like NC still have it! Actually what I was really concerned with is parental alienation, where parent

6:42 Cricket [Facilitator]: Yoli - Spending a lot of money on OW and "bribing kids" with money/gifts is very normal. Again their self esteem is low & they are filled with guilt & trying to buy themselves out of this.

6:42 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:41 sbky: how sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

6:42 Yoli: Cricket, Joey: It didn't mater to me that OW was with him.

6:42 geebo2b: Cricket: well, it is a great Blessing and comfort to me to know someone has committed themselves to praying for me..that brings me more strength then you know

6:43 Rollercoasterider: Lia: That's where I got the term...from Alienation of Affection. I want a term that needs little explanation and isn't a dual meaning for something else ex. predator--because not all OWs are predators and that brings up so [cont'd]

6:43 Cricket [Facilitator]: sbky - My sister (one of them) was very hurtful to me telling me that I wasn't the sister she admired & respected all her life if I thought about taking H back & if I didn't move on. I asked her not to have these discussions but she kept doing it, especially when drinking. It is hard, they mean well, but this is between us & God.

6:43 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:42 Yoli: be careful with that kind of action, it could bring negative, hurtful reaction.

6:43 sbky: joey.. yes. he has grandkids my kids age and younger. I feel so sorry for them.. I am thankful everyday that we have all of our parents

6:43 Lia: RCR cont: manipulates child from seeing & alienating other parent, very traumatic, insidious & child actually believes lies & thinks it was their choice. They don't see it till sometimes yrs later & much was lost I never even see my dtr. It is so devastating

6:44 Rollercoasterider: Lia: ...negative connotations. Alienator gives the idea, but is not directed at the OWs character--OWs are human too.

6:44 steadfast: Cricket/ Joey and all: Praise God. I am on the phone as I type this. My s is on phone wishing me a Happy Mother's Day

6:44 sbky: cricket. my sister has been through this.. he h cheated twice and left the first time on his own. then she found out. then the second time she threw him out. this is one reason I asked God to keep him gone till he was through all of this

6:45 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:44 steadfast: ohhhhhh PTL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

6:45 Yoli: All: Thanks for everything. I just ask for prayers for my daughters and myself. And for me to do what God wants me to do. No more emails or texts.

6:45 TiredB2: steadfast" PTL how wonderful .....kiddos are so cool

6:45 Cricket [Facilitator]: Yoli - It is common for them to take the OW to meet their family & friends. Particularly at first. They are pushing them to do this trying to create a place for themselves. In time the truth comes out. Remember that my H did this and in time the OW alienated his family & friends & this contributed to their breakup.

6:45 Lia: Vsingh 6:37 I take them to family Christian counselor & court appointed another to try "make best of H living with OP" My youngest won't have it ! Son will go there because thinks has to, oldest lives there & youngest wants see dad elsewhere People are

6:45 Rollercoasterider: Lia: Re parental alienation. I Googled the term 'alienator' and only found references to parental...so I wondered if that is what you meant

6:45 sbky: all my d wrote me a poem.. I am gonna print it off and hang it

6:45 Lia: V cont: pressuring poor kid, but she's amazingly strong!

6:46 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:45 sbky: that’s soooo sweet!

6:46 Cricket [Facilitator]: sbky - Keep in mind that they feel guilty & attending our family things are uncomfortable for them. They worry that our family won't accept them.

6:46 sbky: lia. I can’t believe how much strength my 12 year daughter has.. and this started when she was 9

6:47 Rollercoasterider: Cricket and Sbky: MY Stepmother has not respected my Stand. She doesn't say anything about it to me because she learned quickly. But maybe a year or two ago she mentioned it to my mother...who passed it on to me.

6:47 Cricket [Facilitator]: Yoli - Don't stop contact with H if he hasn't asked that you do. If he welcomes your contact, keep the contact up. Still be his best friend. In time he will see the truth & you want to leave that door open.

6:48 Rollercoasterider: Cricket and Sbky cont'd: I will not sacrifice the respect I have for myself so that someone else can respect me. I love my step mother, but am more concerned that I am true to my Self.

6:48 Jo2: ALL - My h work on kids all these years to let him bring ow to certain events with family. Now, after they have said yes a few times, something big is happening. God is in control... not any of us. We need to keep that uppermost in our minds.

6:48 TiredB2: Cricket" @ 646...is there a way to help encourage them to be a part of our family and to help them see they only want what’s best for us and have no ill feelings for them?

6:48 sbky: cricket he knows my family accept him. they have never said anything to him and have always treated him like nothing has never happened.. at my daughters surgery. him and parents talked like usual. one day he picked up my son from my sisters and cont

6:49 Lia: RCR in Amy Baker's book about adult children of PAS she states classic alienator has PD, H's OW is classic pattern of sociopath & was alienating both my H & dtr from day one, She even buddied up to my dtr within first week. My H asked dtr if she'd be

6:49 Cricket [Facilitator]: sbky/RC - People deal with this differently. One sister listened & learned about mlc & supported me, the other was hurtfully vocal against my stand. Now that my H has divorced the OW & been reconnecting with me the past year, it's the other sister who I had to withdraw from.

6:49 sbky: she told him my parents was downstairs working. my son said he couldn’t get him to leave. he kept talking to my parents

6:49 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:48 Rollercoasterider: she really can't respect your stand if she was an AW. would make her feel guilty, don't worry about her, follow God's leading.

6:50 Lia: RCR cont: if he found someone new, only week after he left, he's always spoiled & "bought" affection & loyalty of kids but got worse & can see it with ow

6:51 Lia: sbky 6:46 It's amazing how great these little one's are God is protecting them & they see the character God is growing in us

6:51 sbky: rcr.. my sister said that my mil said that she hoped I could move on and be happy,, I believe at first my mil thought he just wanted a divorce. but I know she doesn’t think that now

6:52 Rollercoasterider: Lia: Oh, so you were referring to an alienator as a divorced/separated spouse and that parental alienators commonly have PDs and that your MLCers OW happens to be a parental alienator...[cont'd]

6:53 Rollercoasterider: Lia: So add what I said to that. I think that MLC OWs have PD tendencies--especially borderline. This is not the case with all OWs, but more specific to the situation when with an MLCer.

6:54 steadfast: All: just got off the phone with s who told me that he loves me and wanted to wish me a Happy Mother's Day. I had said to the Lord earlier this eve that I really needed to have him call me He is my only child and there is just me and the dog here now

6:54 Cricket [Facilitator]: 6:48 TiredB2: It's their own guilt that makes them pull away. I'd keep including him or inviting him to things & in time he'll trust that they can forgive him. It will take time as it's his own guilt.

6:54 Rollercoasterider: Joey: She married the OM and they have been together for 20+ years. The OM is my father.

6:55 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:54 steadfast: :)!!!!

6:55 Cricket [Facilitator]: 6:48 sbky: Even though your family has accepted him, he's not sure how they feel about what he's doing now. Sometimes the read things in them that aren't there because they feel guilty. They don't feel worthy of forgiveness & don't trust that they are regardless of what they say. In time they will.

6:55 Rollercoasterider: Sbky: people think that move on means to stop Standing. Moving on means you get a life...no waiting by the phone pining.

6:55 Lia: RCR Anything I've read says often OP has personality issues, if I come across specific info I'll note it, but & mostly see connections & patterns in own situations. It just seems NPD sees all as extension of self & can only live with self so another

6:55 TiredB2: Cricket@654 that guilt is really strong in some...... can we help them with that....to understand that we do forget them....and have them believe in that forgiveness and forgive themselves?

6:55 Cricket [Facilitator]: Steadfast -PTL - What a wonderful blessing from your son.

6:56 Cricket [Facilitator]: Steadfast - The Lord does hear our prayers... we know... but PTL

6:56 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:54 Rollercoasterider: I understand that more than you know!

6:56 Lia: RCR cont: with PD is probably drawn to them. After all both are messed up & under satan & out for fun & themselves they are both using each other just makes sense right!

6:56 sbky: cricket my h does all the family things. we just avoid each other

6:56 steadfast: Cricket/ Joey and all: An older lady called me today and told me that she didn't know about our separation until last summer. My h came up to her as he knows her well and told her that we were separated and that he has a girlfriend and that he

6:57 Rollercoasterider: Lia: connections and patterns is how I came to my theory. I read and talk to so many people and the situations are mirrors of one another

6:57 Cricket [Facilitator]: Tiredb- In your case, your H is reconnecting so it will be easier to show by your actions that you forgive. While they are still lost out there, it's much harder. Just keep up affirming & showing your love. He'll believe in time. Also he needs to forgive himself.

6:57 Lia: RCR 6:54 wow that must make your own stand hard?

6:58 sbky: rcr. I move forward.

6:58 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:57 Cricket: AMEN

6:58 Lia: RCR Did your mom stand for her marriage or not?

6:58 steadfast: Cricket/ Joey/All wasn't happy anymore in his relationship with me but that I was a wonderful person. To 2 of his personal friends though I got the distinct impression that he was building his case against me. She was shocked and felt he needed to grow

6:59 TiredB2: Cricket/Joey: sometimes I just don’t know what to say and am afraid he may take it wrong......my being quiet

6:59 Rollercoasterider: Lia: no, it doesn't. I don't think about it a lot. But maybe it is why I adamantly refuse to demonize the OW (though I don't like her a bit!) and I encourage others to recognize the OW as broken--the behavior is flawed, not the character

6:59 Joey [Facilitator]: 6:58 steadfast: she's more right than she knows, it will just take time.

6:59 Cricket [Facilitator]: sbky - That's what I meant - moving on really means healing, growing, working on yourself and your relationship with the Lord. This is your time to work on you & do things you haven't given yourself time to do. This is wonderful for us & for our H's to see. Let others know you are moving on in a healthy way (don't have to go into details)

7:00 Rollercoasterider: Lia: The affair was my stepmom and Dad--she was married. MY Mom divorced my Dad many years before that

7:00 Lia: Cricket: Why can't H's just leave us alone though with all the damage they keep on disparaging our character. Why not say oh well, I was unhappy so I left & that's that. I swear mine desperately wants me to fail & become rotten person

7:01 sbky: steadfast. I had a person call her last week for my h and he has been gone for three years.. and we live in a small town

7:01 steadfast: Cricket/ Joey and all: up. I told her that he was dealing with midlife issues. She felt I was a wonderful person and needed to find someone else. They don't understand. I didn't say too much but said that we were still married and that you never know

7:01 Cricket [Facilitator]: Steadfast - They don't realize that when they "make their case" like that, they push others away. This also leads to their feelings of guilt as they sense the friends reaction to what they share.

7:01 Rollercoasterider: Lia: My mom was the initiator of her divorce. My Dad remarried a bigamist who held him at gunpoint--my Brother's mom. That lasted a couple of months. Other relationships between...then my stepmother

7:02 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket, it’s time to close. Shall I?

7:02 Cricket [Facilitator]: Steadfast - Again the best answer is to let them know you are working on yourself, healing & growing. They see this as healthy & yet it doesn't say you aren't standing.

7:02 Cricket [Facilitator]: Joey - Let's give it a few more moments. I’m worried I’ve missed some things. I can close if you need to go.

7:02 Rollercoasterider: Lia: If you fail it shows he was right in leaving...it doesn't show him he caused it but that the problem was you. They continue to antagonize because they remain attached

7:03 Joey [Facilitator]: I’m good, it’s moved fast tonight.

7:03 Lia: Cricket & Joey My H can't even encourage kids to do things like impact & youth group He tells them don't have do what don't want. Don't they @ least want kids to grow & be best people they can be?

7:04 TiredB2: have a great week all..... Good night and thanks again

7:04 Cricket [Facilitator]: 7:00 Lia: They are working on justifying their actions out of their guilt. Sadly it just makes them look worse & pushes others away. Some feel more need to throw dirt, others do say they weren't happy. But they have a lot of guilt so usually find a need to justify some at least.

7:04 steadfast: Cricket; I didn't want to get into saying anything too much about my h. I told her that it had been the most difficult 2 years of my life but that God was my strength and that I take one day at a time with Him. But yes I agree with what you are

7:04 geebo2b: Well I guess it is time..God Bless each and every one of us..May His Good Spirit lead us on level ground this week and always

7:04 Joey [Facilitator]: 7:03 Lia: they can't think that grown up they themselves are kids in their thinking.

7:05 geebo2b: Blessings all

7:05 Cricket [Facilitator]: 6:55 TiredB2: they need to see our forgiveness by our actions. Sometimes we still have pain that we haven't worked thru that we sense.

7:05 geebo2b: nite

7:05 Joey [Facilitator]: 7:05 geebo2b: nite!

7:05 Lia: Cricket & Joey: If H seems to be reconnecting to old acquaintances & such is this good or just another way to try more people on his side so to speak?

7:06 Rollercoasterider: Goodnight and God Bless

7:06 Joey [Facilitator]: 7:05 Lia: reconnecting is a good thing.

7:06 Cricket [Facilitator]: 7:04 steadfast: I agree not to go into much detail about H. But let others know you are moving on by working on yourself, growing, with the Lord, etc. More to assure them you are okay.

7:06 steadfast: Cricket: saying. I need to rehearse it so that it is right on the tip of my tongue when people get talking to me. This lady always liked my h and now says he is a pain in the neck. It's sad that he is destroying his reputation.

7:06 Joey [Facilitator]: 7:06 Rollercoasterider: good night, sweet sleep!

7:07 Cricket [Facilitator]: All - It's time to close, Remember Jim usually comes to chat Monday nights and shares his wisdom.

7:07 Lia: Cricket & Joey: I’m really thinking of strongly encouraging court counselor to go extra mile & deal with oldest dtr's alienation & ask for eval of H & self to help deal as co-parents also to know if H has personality issues so I can try deal better w

7:08 Joey [Facilitator]: All, sweet sleep, rest in Jesus. He has your families in the palm of His hand. He's more than able to take care of them and us!!!!

7:08 Cricket [Facilitator]: Yes - Just have an answer that assures people that we are moving on by healing/growing, nothing negative about H.

7:08 steadfast: All; I got a little behind in keeping up . Thanks for all your wisdom. Have a blessed week and I’m sorry if I missed something that you said to me

7:08 Joey [Facilitator]: Cricket, I’m going to close - K/

7:09 Cricket [Facilitator]: 7:06 steadfast: It's important not to say things against our H's. Good you shared mlc or something that you are giving him time to work thru his stress while working on you.

7:09 Lia: steadfast my H's behavior is affecting his business & partner - sad!!!!! But God will repair all!

7:09 Cricket [Facilitator]: All - Have a great week. We need to close.

7:09 Joey [Facilitator]: 7:08 steadfast: your fine sweetheart!!!! good night.

7:09 steadfast: Cricket: Yes God knew how I was hurting and he obviously answered my prayer for my s to call tonight PTL

7:10 Cricket [Facilitator]: 7:07 Lia: If you can get the court to order counseling, that would be good.

7:11 LisaK [Administrator]:
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6:01 Joey [Facilitator]: Welcome everyone. Happy Mothers Day! Holy Spirit have Your way tonight!


6:02 Yoli: Joey: I'm okay, just trying to come to terms with my worst fears being confirmed. Joey: Well, my older daughter came in and spent the weekend with us. Apparently this is top secret and I’m not supposed to know anything about it. However, for my h to be going out of town when his brother was coming in didn't make any sense. I suspected something was up. Older daughter confirmed it. H does have a girlfriend. It seems that girlfriend basically lives wit him. Daughter said she's really ugly & when she asked h what he saw in her, she's smart and a runner. He took her to meet his family, siblings and extended family. I think he also took her around the little town in west Texas to see. She's never been out there. It seems that younger daughter found her things at his house & that's how she found out.


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Chat Room Acronyms

Guests often use acronyms to speed up their conversations. Here are a few examples for you:

I have been S from my H for 2 years. We have 3 children, S8, S13, and D16.
I have been Separated from my Husband for 2 years. We have 3 children, Son age 8, Son age 13, Daughter age 16.
  OW = Other Woman   AW  = Adulteress Woman   W  = Wife   OP = other person
  OM  = Other Man   AM  = Adulteress Man   H  = Husband   LBS = Left behind spouse
  D = divorce or daughter   S = son or sister or separated   XW  = ex-wife   GF = Girl Friend
  DIL = daughter-in-law   SIL = Sister-in-law or Son-in-law   XH  = ex-husband   BF = Boy Friend
  MIL = mother-in-law   MLC = Midlife Crisis   PG = Praise God   CS = Child Support
  FIL = father-in-law   MLD = Midlife Dimensions Ministry   PTL = Praise the Lord   ED = Erectile Dysfunction
  w/ = with   w/e = weekend   b/c = because   
  w/o = without   BRB / be right back   LOL / laughing out loud