Midlife Dimensions

6:21 PM

challenger3

cricket I have read that it does take 5 years. I know he has to go through the process. One of his friends bought him a ticket to visit California so he leaves tomorrow morning at 6 a.m. My understanding is there are no girls going but I do not know for sure. I told him to have a good time and kissed him good bye. You could see the tension, anxiousness and anger on his face.

6:23 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - I actually think that it is good if they do guy things. My H always wanted to go on a guy’s motorcycle across country.   He didn't do that until he split with the OW but has done it now. Those things can really help them work through fantasies.

6:01 PM

Swan

Hello everyone, welcome to Sunday evening chat.

6:01 PM

Cricket

Good evening all, Happy Father's Day to all. I know this is a difficult time during mlc, but keep in mind our spouses are thinking of us particularly during this time and they are filled with memories even though they don't share those thoughts.

6:01 PM

Joey

Hi Bittersweet!!!

6:02 PM

Joey

Hi Dani!!!!

6:02 PM

dani

Hi Everyone, how are things tonight?

6:03 PM

dani

Hi Swan, Just read your prayer requests....praying with you!

6:03 PM

wiffe

HI all.

6:03 PM

Swan

dani - Thanks Dani, appreciated very much

6:03 PM

Joey

Hi wiffe!!!!

6:04 PM

dani

Hi wiffe, how are you tonight?

6:04 PM

wiffe

All why does it seem my H tries to make everything into a competition.

6:04 PM

Cricket

wiffe - My guess is that he feels you do the same. Often during mlc, we are so insecure that we can do that too.

6:04 PM

Joey

wiffe bc that’s the way a teenager thinks and acts.

6:05 PM

wiffe

All we took his step dad a card today. He went there when he had the girls and sent me a text like really you went already. He's like you knew I was taking them. UMM NO I didn't you asked for them for lunch. nothing about going over to your dad's and we did the same thing last year. I hate to admit this but I hate father's day even now. I never celebrated it until we had D7 and now that my mom is gone it's even harder since I have NO ONE. so I'm not too happy. Just really sad and want my family back.

6:07 PM

dani

wiffe, it's difficult to work through this with the holidays reminding us of what used to be. Ask God to give you extra patience and know that he may be more irritable because of the confusion of MLC during this time.

6:07 PM

Cricket

wiffe - When our H's pull away, they often resent our reaching out to their family and they feel we are doing it to hang on to them. It isn't unusual. They particularly resent it if we take the kids to their parents as this is something they can do most comfortably with the kids in this process. O

6:08 PM

wiffe

all it also didn't help yesterday was year number 4 that my mom passed away and no one mentioned anything about it.

6:08 PM

dani

Hi Challenger....good to have you here.   How are you tonight?

6:09 PM

challenger3

Hi dani...Thanks glad to be here. I am doing ok tonight.

6:09 PM

Cricket

wiffe - Just like we feel uncomfortable doing some things alone, like going to a movie or out for a meal. They too feel uncomfortable doing things alone so their parents are a safe place for them. I was very close to my in laws but when my H left, they pulled away from me as they felt they needed to support their son. They could see his depression and they worried for him. They worried about me too, but their loyalty had to be for their son.

6:10 PM

Joey

hi hepsy!!!!

6:10 PM

hepsy

hi joey

6:10 PM

dani

Wiffe....it sounds like you have your expectations a bit high.   These things are really important to us because we are thinking of everything that we are missing, but others around us are not focusing in on these things like we are.

6:10 PM

wiffe

Cricket He didn’t act like this on Mother’s day when we took his mom a card

6:10 PM

dani

Hi Hepsy, how are you tonight?

6:10 PM

challenger3

Wiffe so sorry you are having a hard day. I know how you feel. I just want my family back too. My H had the dream that he would make this great place for the kids and they would love to go there. This was their second weekend and of course it was not as "great" as he thought. He was very anxious and tense about it.

6:11 PM

wiffe

all I really want to just pack up the girls and go drop them off at his place and say here you want them take them and see how well you do by yourself. I can't do this anymore. I'm crashing I think

6:11 PM

hepsy

dani - good. I went and visited a new church today. I liked it a lot. How are you?

6:11 PM

challenger3

Joey I am not sure if I have talked with you but good luck to you.   It all sounds like good news.

6:11 PM

wiffe

Doesn't help Thursday is our 10 year anniversary :(

6:12 PM

Cricket

dani - Wiffe - I agree about expectations too high. When my Mom died, people were very supportive, a few remembered the next year (just a couple extended families). But after that, It was only my sisters and I who remembered.

6:12 PM

Joey

challenger3 thanks, it’s been a journey. just have to try to stay out of God way and work on myself.

6:12 PM

wiffe

all I had to ask him to take the girls to VBS on Tuesday and he wanted to know what I had to do. Does he have a right to even ask? he was like questioning me on what I had to do.

6:12 PM

dani

Hepsy. It was a beautiful day here today and I had a very good day thank you!

6:12 PM

challenger3

Joey how long has it been?

6:13 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - They all have these fantasies and their own high expectations, but in time they see reality.

6:14 PM

challenger3

Cricket I know but it is all just so serial sometimes. I know this makes them think differently and do different things that they would never do but still you would think he would start figuring out that it would be easier to work on his home life than to try and make his kids love a new life. Just frustrating.

6:14 PM

Cricket

wiffe - Are you in counseling? I know we talked about this and that you hoped your H would get into counseling. I shared before that they have to want to, but I know many of us found that counseling really helped us. I really think that this is something that would be helpful for you. ALSO... you might talk to your doctor about some anti depressants. This is a long process and many of us found it helped to have some help in the early stages.

6:15 PM

Joey

challenger3 I try not to give time so others don't get discourage and I don't put my attention there. I'm part of the orig. members of the chat when it started. I will stay that. Trust God, His time and His way!!!

6:15 PM

wiffe

Cricket I need to call.

6:16 PM

dani

Wiffe....it sounds like you need to vent to us and then focus in on getting yourself back on track. After chat you might want to pull out Jim's book (do you have it?) or read through some of the articles again, have some quiet time with God and ask him to quiet your heart and mind and give you direction. It is easy to feel like you are crashing from time to time.....and you need to find a way to strengthen yourself.....reading, praying, and music. Have a good cry if you need to.

6:16 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - This is a process that takes time. The average mlcr takes about 5 years to work through mlc, some take longer. BUT - we can really use this time to work in us, to do things we've always wanted to do but didn't give ourselves the time to do.   We can't fix them. They have to chase their fantasy and hit bottom to be ready to reach for help.

6:16 PM

Cricket

wiffe - I don't understand what you mean -Cricket I need to call.

6:17 PM

dani

Challenger....you would think they would figure it out....right?! .....it just takes so much longer than seems logical!

6:17 PM

wiffe

dani I cried so hard when he left with the girls today and then when he sent that text. It was a cry of missing my mom, him being mean, him being confusing.

6:17 PM

wiffe

Cricket I need to call either of the pastors or the counseling place I went to before.

6:18 PM

challenger3

wiffe I have to agree with Cricket @14. I started on the anti depressants for about a month and now I just take them on an as needed basis. Sleeping pills like ambien have been a big help as well. I also do weekly counseling and this chat. I have not lost my mother so I cannot help there but you may want to consider visiting with a doctor. I know I was having panic attacks.

6:18 PM

dani

wiffe...I agree with Cricket. I went to counseling for a year without my husband. It helped to have someone to spill my thoughts out to for an hour straight. Plus, it sets an example....that we do not think we "have it all together", but we are truly open to learning and growing.

6:18 PM

Cricket

wiffe - You keep expecting your H to act like he did before mlc hit and that just isn't possible. We've shared that holidays are always some of the most difficult times. It is difficult for us, but it is also a time that is difficult for them.   They really blame us for the fact that they are in this predicament... they look at little things we do and didn't fix as justification for where they are. They've been depressed and confused and it must be our fault.

6:18 PM

challenger3

dani I know. I see his torment but yet he keeps fighting it.

6:20 PM

Cricket

wiffe - I know we talked about that a couple months ago.   I can see from things you share here that it would be very helpful to start counseling and get help for yourself.   As Dani said, most of us have

6:20 PM

dani

Wiffe, I'm so sorry. I know, I didn't have my parents either when my h had left, and I truly wanted to talk to my mom, but then I knew she loved my h so much and it would have broken her heart, so I was thankful she didn't have to know that.

6:21 PM

challenger3

cricket I have read that it does take 5 years. I know he has to go through the process. One of his friends bought him a ticket to visit California so he leaves tomorrow morning at 6 a.m. My understanding is there are no girls going but I do not know for sure. I told him to have a good time and kissed him good bye. You could see the tension, anxiousness and anger on his face.

6:21 PM

wiffe

dani I never knew my father and don’t even have a name so it hurts even worse.

6:22 PM

Cricket

wiffe - My mother was my best friend, she lived a few minutes away.   I have no other family living near me and we never had children so I definitely understand how lonely it can get.   My H started into mlc right after my mother died and sometimes I think how much it would help to have her here but I am thankful she wasn't here to see his actions.

6:22 PM

wiffe

all he did at least let me kiss his cheek and put my arms around me. He kind of put his arm around me.

6:22 PM

wiffe

Cricket I think my mother's death is what started his MLC.

6:23 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - I actually think that it is good if they do guy things. My H always wanted to go on a guy’s motorcycle across country.   He didn't do that until he split with the OW but has done it now. Those things can really help them work through fantasies.

6:23 PM

dani

Challenger....it's hard to see all those things in his face....but it can also remind us that this is an inner battle with himself....and probably God and his past too.

6:24 PM

Cricket

wiffe - I've said that too, I believe my H hit mlc due to my mother's death as well. It hurts and in my case, I had no real contact with him after he left me and moved the OW into his home except that we all worked together. I couldn't talk to him about issues, he didn't comfort me, and it was just how it is in mlc.

6:24 PM

Swan

wiffe - Boy the enemy sure is flooding you with thoughts of all that you didn't or don't have and I can see it is causing you a great amount of emotional pain. For me, when the enemy attacks hard like this, I find comfort in the Word of God and much prayer, I don't know how it happens, but I start to be able to see positive things in my life too and not having all negative in my mind, does give me a better perspective for a season.

6:25 PM

challenger3

wiffe I love going to counseling and this chat room because I can just say I feel. She agrees sometimes and disagrees but it is more about just having something for myself.

6:25 PM

wiffe

all I just want a break. (I"M VENTING) He gets to do what he wants and when he wants and never has to worry about the girls. For me to lose weight guess who goes with me. THE GIRLS. I take them riding with me now. He gets to go for 1 1/2 hours and not once has to think of where the girls are.   I'm trying to earn money and have to figure out how to get the girls there.

6:26 PM

Joey

Hi Plum!!!!

6:26 PM

wiffe

all and I still hate to admit this I don’t' read my Bible enough.   I admit that. I still don’t' understand it and I don’t know how to.   People tell me to read X chapter or this chapter but it still makes no sense to me.

6:26 PM

dani

Challenger....I know what you mean; I felt the same way in counseling.

6:26 PM

challenger3

Cricket yes I do think this is good for him. He really needs it and I am hoping some time away will help him think. I do believe it was his father's death and mother's illness that started his MLC.

6:27 PM

dani

Plumcrazy...Hi! how is your h doing?

6:27 PM

challenger3

wiffe can you go somewhere and get a break. Do you have family that you can send the girls to?

6:28 PM

Cricket

Swan - wiffe - I agree. I've been worried for wiffe as she's been suffering from those thoughts for some time and I worry that the negativity shows to her H. That's why I've been suggesting counseling for her and antidepressants to help in this process. This mlc is not fair, it isn't for any of us and we can give up and as you suggested, drop the kids (if we have them) on his door step and walk away, but we know we won't and if we did, it wouldn't help Morwenna's H has her son because he lets the teenager do as he wants. This adds to her pain & hasn't shown her H anything.

6:28 PM

plumcrazy

dani H is doing ok. Except his hand swelled up that they had the IV in they say sometimes a small puncture in the vein lets the IV fluid leak into surrounding area

6:28 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - Death of a family member or serious illness are both triggers for mlc so I'm sure you are right.

6:28 PM

Swan

wiffe - There are commentaries that can help us understand the Bible, I have found Warren Wiersbe's "Be" commentaries are very good and easy to understand. His seem to be very close to the Bible. I eventually got the entire series and they have helped me so much to understand the Bible, you can also find many on line free.

6:28 PM

plumcrazy

dani He has cardiac catheterization in the morning to check for any more blockage just to be safe cause of his history

6:29 PM

Joey

wiffe your not alone - remember that. Where I work I mainly see single mom’s raising2-4 kids alone with no family help and the fathers are not MLC - they just left or didn't stick around. Vent to us but learn to push into God, His word and faithfulness!

6:30 PM

Cricket

wiffe - Many of didn't read the Bible that much before mlc, but mlc has a way of getting our attention and helping us learn. I bought a woman's version that is simpler. I also took several Beth Moore Bible Studies that were awesome (all women's group).   The Lord has actually given me messages through my Bible reading as I know he has done with others.

6:30 PM

plumcrazy

dani At least this time H is not grumpy or nasty to me. He was joking around being smart aleck to the ladies doing the stress test

6:31 PM

Joey

hi koko!!!!

6:31 PM

challenger3

dani @23 it was hard to see. I put both my hands on his face and I kissed him. He kissed me back-nothing big just a quick peck but I told him that the kids adore him and so do I. To go and have fun and to call us from CA. He said that he would. You could just see how stressed and crazed he was. He was sooo hurt by my D11 who really acted like a spoiled brat all weekend.

6:31 PM

challenger3

wiffe we are all here for you.

6:31 PM

koko

hi all

6:31 PM

challenger3

Hi koko

6:32 PM

plumcrazy

dani I waited in the hall outside the lab and they thought it was cause I was worried. Maybe a little but I was wanting to see how honest he was and what BS he gave to the ladies doing the test

6:32 PM

Swan

koko - Hey how are you tonight?

6:33 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - I really encouraged my H to do various things that he'd wanted to do, like the motorcycle trip. In my case, and OW got a grip on him and isolated him from his friends and family. In time he got a reality check and left her and finally started doing those things.   They need to chase fantasies, and if they can do things like guys trips etc, it can be very helpful. But we can't control what they do; we can just work on us, give them space and let them find reality.

6:34 PM

dani

Wiffe, for me, it was very helpful to sit quietly and think about just one verse at a time. For instance, The Lord is My Shepherd, I shall now want Psalm 23:1.....then I would only think about that phrase ....what a shepherd does for a bunch of wandering sheep....how am I like those sheep?...what can he do for me? Am I responding to what He is trying to show me.....don't take too much on.   Read small parts and then ask him to show you what He wants you to hear.

6:34 PM

Swan

plumcrazy - so you were spying on his integrity? Does he know you were out there and if so is he feeling the same at the others or does he suspect the truth? Remember that during MLC, they see very little clearly, but somehow always seem to see through us.

6:34 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - All you can do is be supportive of him and not let your D11 put a wedge between you.

6:34 PM

dani

Plum....Really?!? That is praise!!

6:34 PM

plumcrazy

dani One of the ladies told him I was outside and worried. He made a comment about I carry on too much or something to that effect then I walked him back as they wheeled him to his room I said I knew he was done I heard his "big" mouth as he went by the waiting room. H was like "my big mouth?"

6:34 PM

koko

Swan. doing ok busy weekend with softball tourney w D9. W went too. had very good day Sat. today started shaky W seemed to just want to sit in the sun but by the end of the day she was ok

6:35 PM

dani

Koko, Hi, how are you tonight? I'm not sure I have chatted with you before?!

6:35 PM

challenger3

You know I just don't know what to do or how to act sometimes.   Thursday night was my son's game and he is a coach on the team. He told me that he would meet me at the game. As I was leaving the drive thru line he calls me to say he was headed to meet us at the house. I asked if I could get him something to eat and he gave me his order. We all sat and ate dinner together then went to the game. He asked me to get him a water so I did and of course he talked to me the whole time when he wasn't on the field. He walked me back to the car and put his arm out to give me a hug. This past week he has used the word WE and US a lot when it comes to money. He has been investigating all the meds for my D11 disorders. Just been weird and not sure how to take it all.

6:36 PM

plumcrazy

Swan He was smiling when he said that! Then the tech said "I think you two need a counselor but you seem to really love each other" I was kind of shocked when she said that But kind of a praise don’t you think?

6:36 PM

dani

Challenger....I remember the father's day before my h broke it off with the ow. My teenage daughter treated him miserably and I felt awful. Then I had to remember that I was trusting God to work all of this together to bring about His will.....and I believe that He used it all!

6:36 PM

Cricket

plumcrazy - Why do you say those things? His Big Mouth... Don't you feel those things hurt or push his buttons. I know you'd really been working on not needling him. As Swan said, they really resent us snooping and questioning them.

6:36 PM

challenger3

Cricket I have been. When he told me some of this things she said I just said remember that she is an 11 year old. I told her I was sorry she hurt him. It was hard but I know it was for the best

6:36 PM

koko

Dani we have chatted briefly before

6:36 PM

Swan

koko - unfortunately MLCer's go through very selfish periods, like just wanting to sit in the sun, but sometimes they join in on the activities around them and actually have fun. Glad she joined in after all, bet your daughter loved it too.

6:36 PM

challenger3

dani I think God is working hard for me.

6:37 PM

Cricket

plumcrazy - I wonder if she didn't hear your Big Mouth Comment and say that because of the bickering.

6:37 PM

wiffe

dani That still doesn't help. I still don't understand.

6:38 PM

dani

Plumcrazy....Good for you. It sounds like you were being a little sassy and funny!

6:38 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - It's also great that you affirm him when you can. Their self esteem is shot and it's huge if we can compliment them in specific ways sincerely. You'll notice how they react when you can. We know the damage to our self esteem but theirs is damaged too.

6:39 PM

plumcrazy

Cricket It was just teasing when we said those things. Neither one of us was being mean. Smiles on both of our faces. I learned to joke around with H after last time. I was so WORRIED and hovering then

6:39 PM

Cricket

wiffe - It doesn't happen all at once. The Beth Moore Bible Studies were fantastic. Lots of reading but she really explains things and helps it all fit together and make sense.

6:39 PM

Swan

plumcrazy - Smiling doesn't mean he thought it was funny, I know for myself, sometimes I just smile because I know what I really want to say is going to hurt the other person. So I just smile and say nothing, but what is going through my mind isn't always in agreement with the smile. Also, it would depend on his reaction. They don't often take outside interference as a good thing, sometimes it just makes them clam up and become resistant to those people, kind of afraid to say anything to them in fear that they will run to you with information he might not want you to know. I will be praying that he will take his illness serious and do all that is needed to get the proper treatment, especially being honest with the hospital staff.

6:39 PM

challenger3

In some ways I think I am dealing with something that may never go away though. It is not like he is living with or pushing a OW on to me or the kids. In fact, it seems that these feelings that are out there have never been acted upon but she is part of this group that reconnected from High School and it seems that there is this one girl that really feels that she is most important to everyone. She even called him the day his mother died and said come over to my house, I will cook for you and your family. She has done "an intervention" because she thought he was drinking too much. She got him the plane ticket. This is not someone that he would have an affair with.

6:39 PM

koko

Swan my Ds don’t know because it is almost normal when they are around my oldest D17 knows my W is not the same but thinks its her. The only thing missing is the affection in front of them  

6:39 PM

challenger3

I just think I am battling something totaling different in some ways.

6:40 PM

Cricket

plumcrazy - OH That's good. I know in the past there were times when he'd push your buttons and you'd lash out so I worried that happened again. It is important that he doesn't catch you checking up on him or snooping and as Swan said, they know us so well they usually spot it.

6:40 PM

plumcrazy

Swan I prayed the same thing and H is being better about telling the nurses things. Came home and prayed a lot last night

6:41 PM

challenger3

Cricket thank you. I do compliment him all the time. In fact, one night he was telling me about some research that he has done on our daughter's new medication. He said you know me I am always an over thinker so I need to research.   I said yes and I have always appreciated that about you. I also told him that I respected his feelings and thoughts about all these things.   I do think those things are helping but man it is hard!

6:42 PM

challenger3

cricket is the Beth Moore Bible studies on line?

6:42 PM

Joey

hi digforhelp!!!

6:42 PM

koko

Dani to update you W is still at home no known affairs, never left, been over 2 yrs, no physical connection during this time

6:43 PM

plumcrazy

Cricket I walked him down and he knew I was there. Yesterday when the tech took him to his room she said well I know you two were probably worried about the stress test and results. H was saying he wasn’t Then the lady said "Well I think your wife was" H said "Yeah she probably was"\

6:43 PM

digforhelp

hello everyone

6:44 PM

koko

digforhelp hey dig how are you?

6:44 PM

digforhelp

koko - I'm very down. happy father's day to you.

6:44 PM

Swan

koko - our children often know more than they let on, especially those in the teen years. Continue to protect them as much as possible, but also be ready for the day they finally admit they know what is going on and start asking questions.

6:45 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - They feel like life passed them buy, and are chasing fantasies of their unlived life. They feel they've gotten old so if a woman flirts and pays attention, of course it feeds their ego. That's why it's good he's going on this trip and doing some things that are healthy. If you haven't read Jim Conway's book - Men in MLC, you should. It   really explains things so well.   He will work through it, but it takes time. Anything we can do to update our appearance, work on us, flirt and compliment them is huge.

6:45 PM

koko

dig sorry to hear that but Happy Fathers day to you too

6:45 PM

dani

Hi Dig for help!

6:46 PM

digforhelp

koko - thank-you

6:46 PM

digforhelp

dani - hello dani

6:46 PM

Cricket

digforhelp koko - A I was saying to others. Holidays, especially Fathers Day for men are very difficult time. Do keep in mind that our spouses are thinking of us & remembering good things during these times too. They often seem more grouchy because of the memories but they are remembering.

6:46 PM

dani

Challenger....don't lose hope. They all take a different path, but it is that wandering road out there somewhere, and they need us to be steady until they've figured out whatever they are looking for is not out there.

6:47 PM

Cricket

plumcrazy - That's good. I worried when I saw you say you were listening outside to see what BS he was telling them. That made me worry he'd feel you were snooping too.

6:47 PM

plumcrazy

Swan & Cricket H has been nice to me thru this hospitalization. I think getting sick after the stress test scared him cause his BP got so low. He has been asking me for things and thanked me for the Fathers Day card I got him.

6:47 PM

digforhelp

Cricket - my wife actually started the day good. she told me what a good father I am to our children and gave me a hug and a kiss. but it went downhill from then.

6:47 PM

Cricket

Challenger - Do you know that Dani has a restored marriage so she is one who knows.

6:47 PM

koko

Cricket my W actually went out last night to get me something for father’s day even though she had my Ds give it to me she is the one that picked it out for me to wear

6:48 PM

Cricket

plumcrazy - That is great. This is an important time to flirt, joke and compliment him ... a great time to make progress

6:48 PM

challenger3

cricket @45 thanks. I am doing those things. I have lost about 12 pounds and try to look good and smile every time I see him. I make sure he knows that I still care and love him in my actions and words.

6:49 PM

Joey

plumcrazy that’s great he thanked you!

6:49 PM

challenger3

dani thanks for the words. I do believe he has to wander through this one. just hard sometimes that's all!

6:49 PM

Cricket

digforhelp - Remember when they feel a connection to us and feelings pop up, it scares them. They really worry they'll give us false hope so they pull away. I would think that's what happened.

6:49 PM

dani

Plum, I am really pleased to hear how his attitude is softening, and it sounds like you are too.....and finding humor in difficult situations. Humor is wonderful medicine for the soul!

6:50 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - PERFECT - Also - look at any of the things he may complain about - EX: my H said he felt I smothered him, I was too nurturing, and I always had to have the last word and/or be right. I really looked at those areas and worked on improving there too. He felt I wouldn't go do things with friends on my own and I've done many things he didn't think I could. We can't fix them but we can really work on us.

6:51 PM

plumcrazy

Joey I was looking at his hands cause one is really swollen I took his swollen hand in min and was comparing it to the other I said "It is still really puffy" H said "Don’t worry it has gone down a lot and they are watching it" PTL!!!

6:52 PM

Joey

plumcrazy :)

6:53 PM

dani

Digforhelp and Koko, I'm glad to hear that your wives are recognizing what they have in you.

6:53 PM

plumcrazy

Joey I took H his laptop to occupy his time. He really appreciated and started to complain "You didn’t bring my glasses though did you?!!" I pulled them out and handed them to him he was smiling. Seeing positive things from him

6:53 PM

challenger3

Plum that all does sound good.

6:54 PM

Cricket

wiffe - I don't want to neglect you. I do think getting yourself into counseling is huge as well as checking with your doctor about some antidepressants. It's important that you find a healthy medium to where you don't shut your H out but you also don't put life on hold waiting for him to tell you what he wants.   What he thinks or wants changes hour to hour and sometimes minute to minute. One moment he wants to hold on to you, the next he thinks if he can just leave & run from all responsibility he could be happy again.   Remember that they really struggle with thoughts of suicide. My H admitted he came very close to eating his gun. We think they have it so easy, but it really isn't true.

6:54 PM

Joey

plumcrazy giggles and smiles when I read your last post.

6:54 PM

Cricket

plumcrazy - Very good - I'm very proud of you, keep up the good work.

6:54 PM

digforhelp

dani - yes, I was surprised she said what she said. now if only she sees I'm also a good husband. :)

6:55 PM

challenger3

He just called to talk to say good night to kids. It is just crazy how we talked yesterday and everything was so nice and easy. Tonight it was nice but minimal conversation and standoffish answers!   he is on a major rollercoaster.

6:55 PM

dani

wiffe, I agree with Cricket. They can be very miserable. My h also struggled with those thoughts.

6:55 PM

plumcrazy

Cricket I did LEARN something’s although it took me a LONG time to get it thru my thick head HUH?

6:55 PM

Joey

challenger3 when they get to "old them" feelings, it scares them and they tend to run - normal MLC behavior.

6:56 PM

Cricket

challenger3 =- YUP We talk about their rollercoaster ride.   We really have to struggle to keep from being pulled into that ride with them.

6:56 PM

Cricket

Plumcrazy - YES you have learned. Sorry I jumped to the wrong conclusion. I just worry about falling back into old habits when things are going better.

6:56 PM

wiffe

dani Cricket Just a bad day.

6:57 PM

challenger3

wiffe I can see the misery on his face, in his body language and in his tone. I have to agree that we cannot feel sorry for them but not feel that they have it easy per say.

6:57 PM

koko

Dani how hard was it to get the physical part of the relationship back while restoring your marriage?  

6:57 PM

challenger3

Wiffe you are in my prayers. I can tell you that sometimes I pull out old pictures and just let myself cry.

6:57 PM

challenger3

That has been therapeutic.

6:58 PM

Joey

all, they work REALLY HARD to make it appear things are as good as they seem BUT if you could see inside their minds and hearts - YOU would not dare change places with them.

6:58 PM

plumcrazy

Cricket You were right to worry about that I did that a couple of weeks ago after not doing it for a very long time. Something H said and did set off old insecurities and things were not good for a couple of weeks and were still strained when this happened. So seeing these positive things since he has been in the hospital are awesome PTL!!!

6:59 PM

dani

Wiffe....been there honey. If we could reach through and give you a hug we would.   I will pray for peace for you tonight.

6:59 PM

Cricket

wiffe - It's just that I've sensed this from you for quite a while and I do think that both things are very important for you. I personally counseled with Jim a few times but I can't imagine not having had time with my own counselor. ALSO - as has been said, there were time I was so desperate and I'd be praying asking if I was suppose to stand and things happened - with my Bible opening to a section ... then my pastor read the same verses and then I got Charlyne Cares and she had the same verses - I got it 3 times in less than 24 hrs and KNEW it was from Him.

6:59 PM

digforhelp

hello - hello hepsy. how are you?

6:59 PM

koko

Joey@58 you are so right

6:59 PM

plumcrazy

wiffe I agree with Cricket seeing a counselor for you is very helpful. But you also have to get away by yourself for alone time or you will go NUTS

7:00 PM

dani

Koko, Every part of the relationship was work. We had to make a new relationship....not based so much on the past.....but two new people coming together.

7:01 PM

Cricket

wiffe - I agree with Joey. Your H having time with the girls will be a great time for you to do things on your own. Use that time to really take some personal R & R.. not stay home, but do things for you.

7:01 PM

Cricket

wiffe - I mean I agree with Plum about alone time

7:02 PM

plumcrazy

Cricket Have you sent Wiffe stuff by Jan on how to pray and hear God?

7:02 PM

koko

Dani was it at the point when he was finally willing to. what turned your H around?

7:03 PM

Cricket

koko - When that time comes - where they really want to restore the marriage.. take it slow. Listen (really listen), take walks together, take things slow, building the friendship first. Start with little things like a touch, massage shoulders, etc

7:03 PM

challenger3

Cricket can you send me the same things from Jan about prayer and hearing God. I am really working on that for me.

7:03 PM

Cricket

plumcrazy - I sent her many emails early on including an excellent one that Swan shared about how to hear from God. Some people get overwhelmed and don't keep the emails though.

7:04 PM

Swan

plumcrazy - glad to see your comment at 59, how is your counseling going? We all need it, if for nothing else, so we don't take everything so personal.

7:04 PM

challenger3

Wiffe, the book the praying wife has helped because I feel like I am doing something for him and my family. Then I can go and start doing things for me. Working and remodeling both my kids’ rooms. Visiting with friends etc.

7:04 PM

dani

Koko.....lots of time, the other relationship he was in "wore out", we stayed consistently open to him and God opened his eyes to see the family that loved him and that he was losing .

7:04 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - I agree -the Book By Stormie - The Power of the Praying Wife is great.

7:05 PM

wiffe

Cricket the only thing with when he has them he won’t tell me when he's coming back.

7:05 PM

Joey

all, Power of a Praying Wife is great.

7:05 PM

koko

Cricket I hear you there, I don’t want to rush because it’s been so long I want to make sure it’s very special and a new relationship

7:06 PM

challenger3

I love the book. I find a new prayer and try to memorize it. I am a helper and fixer and sense he does not want my help or for me to fix anything directly having a book like that makes me feel like I am helping him but not causing harm to the relationship.

7:06 PM

Cricket

wiffe - That's okay. Do your own thing, let him know you will be busy and to let you know when to be home. If he returns and hasn’t told you, it's not bad if he has to wait. It will add a little mystery and make him realize the important of letting you know in advance.

7:06 PM

wiffe

All sorry I stepped away for a second. 2 girls fighting in the tub. I caught most of my comments to me. Now that school is done I hope to read more. I'm just really pulled in multiple directions. Especially with H. One minute he wants me the next he doesn’t

7:07 PM

Joey

all, I need to have time in my prayer window, get ready for work tomorrow and some Bible time. Sweet sleep everyone - just know God is able, rest in Him, trust and have faith in His ability.

7:07 PM

wiffe

Cricket He seemed to get mad on Sat when he asked if he could have them for lunch when I simply asked what time. I was like so I know if I should feed them or how much to feed them and what we can do.

7:07 PM

Cricket

koko - We women respond to subtle things, taking our hand, an arm around our shoulders, cuddling, and REALLY LISTENING without trying to have answers or fixing things. TO really let us know you care enough to just listen, hold us,... touch is huge.

7:08 PM

wiffe

all I subconsciously (I think I misspelled that) do still have resentment towards him and I don’t want that but it's sooooooo hard. he did go in the garage and looked at my bike handles. Now if only he would buy me new ones. LOL

7:08 PM

plumcrazy

Joey goodnight Take care Love Ya!!! Thanks for the prayers for my H

7:09 PM

koko

Cricket and when she rejects touch? Wait for her to touch first?

7:09 PM

dani

Koko.....and don't forget to do a little housework!! You can't imagine what it does for your wife for you to swing a hammer on a project or help out around the house.

7:09 PM

Cricket

wiffe - I think he feels that he gets the third degree any time he asks. You might find other ways. If he asked for them for lunch, I'd assume he wouldn't want you to feed them if he's taking them to lunch. But you could say yes, when should I have them ready. When you ask What Time - It feels controlling.

7:09 PM

wiffe

Cricket but his lunchtime was 3. I know he works 3rds and that is why I was asking. I didn’t say what time I probably said about what time?

7:10 PM

dani

Koko....do you think your wife is dealing with depression?

7:10 PM

koko

Dani I do help more than you know I think she gets upset sometimes when I help saying that I already do too much

7:10 PM

wiffe

Cricket and when we are done at noon 3 or 4 is a long time for a 7 and 4 year old to wait for food.   It all depends on what time he gets off.

7:10 PM

Cricket

koko - If she isn't ready for touch, start by listening... men tend not to be good listeners and yes we women tend to talk too much.   But to really listen and remember things they shared is big. Asking if she wants to join you for a walk, if you think she might be willing... start with the little things.

7:11 PM

wiffe

Cricket noon for church being done.

7:11 PM

koko

Dani I think so but she refuses any help at this moment

7:11 PM

Cricket

wiffe - Still better to ask him when he'd like you to have them ready sounds better - you can then decide if you need to give them a small snack.

7:11 PM

plumcrazy

wiffe Letting go of the resentment is a big thing I also have to watch how I respond to H. Sometimes I don’t realize how things may sound critical to him until someone else pointed it out. When you are arguing a lot it is easy to get into habit of "bickering and using certain tones with each other

7:12 PM

Cricket

wiffe - My guess is he feels you are holding the children as leverage from him, that he has to negotiate to see his own children. I understand that's not how you feel, but they are very sensitive to us using the kids as weapons and many women do that.

7:12 PM

dani

Koko....ok, from the other side then....are you the "neat-nick" in the house and is there the chance she is feeling judged by what you are doing? I hate to admit it, but I can get that way.

7:13 PM

koko

Cricket sounds like dejevue. I have improved on lots of things I do see things better than a year ago

7:13 PM

Swan

wiffe - I agree with Cricket @11, starting with yes, then asking when to have them ready at least lets him know right off that his request isn't being refused or pending your approval only if he meets your restrictions.   Unfortunately, they often feel that we are trying to control their every breathing moment and use the children to fulfill that. It often isn't what we are doing, but how they take it.

7:14 PM

Cricket

plumcrazy - :)   AWWWW there you go... making me smile ...

7:14 PM

challenger3

Wiffe this is all soo hard I know it. You know I was upset when my H said that would pick the kids up after he closes which is close to 10 p.m. sometimes. My friend who is very opinionated said well at least he is being a dad and I realized that I had to let go. I don't ask a lot of questions. at least I try not to. If he is picking up at lunchtime give them a small snack and then assume he is taking them lunch. I think my friend is right-he needs to a dad and that means lunch when he picks them up for lunch.

7:14 PM

wiffe

Cricket He asked for them to stay the night wed and I didn’t even waiver I paused and said OK. He said he would take them to VBS and I was like are you picking them up and he thought he would pick them up Wed from VBS but realized that wouldn't work.

7:14 PM

plumcrazy

Cricket how did I make you smile?

7:14 PM

wiffe

cricket that was on Friday

7:15 PM

koko

Dani me a neat nick I don’t think so. nobody can even load dishwasher right way ,fold towels the right way, she is like her father even though I would never tell her that:)

7:15 PM

Cricket

plumcrazy - What you shared with wiffe

7:15 PM

koko

good night all

7:16 PM

plumcrazy

Cricket I do listen sometimes

7:16 PM

dani

koko....ok, just checking....trying every angle for you from a woman's point of view!!

7:16 PM

challenger3

Wiffe maybe you just need to change your answer from when will you be here to sure just let me know when you will be by.

7:16 PM

plumcrazy

koko Night take care

7:16 PM

challenger3

That is how I answer.

7:16 PM

wiffe

all I guess I just don’t' even know how to speak to him correctly. Everything I say gets interpreted wrong by him.

7:16 PM

koko

Dani@16 that’s what I am looking for any answer I can get thank you

7:17 PM

Cricket

wiffe - a lot of it has to do with how we ask.   As Swan said - we really need them to see that we are not controlling every movement.   As far as VBS - If he said he'd take them, I wouldn't have expected he could pick them up, I'd ask, if he would like me to pick them up or if he wanted to do that too. SO it feels like a partnership & cooperation.

7:18 PM

digforhelp

good night everyone.

7:18 PM

dani

I need to say goodnight! You will be in my prayers.

7:18 PM

Swan

wiffe - that is because MLCer's sadly live in a hazy fog and their reality isn't always what those around them did, said, saw or meant.   They become a lot like selfish children who think everyone is out to control them and keep them from having the fun they have never gotten to have.

7:19 PM

challenger3

Wiffe I agree it has to do with giving him choices and letting him choose. In sales it is called an "option close" and then they feel like they controlled the decision not you.

7:19 PM

Swan

Night Dani

7:19 PM

Cricket

wiffe - I know writing here doesn't show us the tone and can be misinterpreted but often when you've shared things said between you & your H, I've felt it sounded like it was controlling. Often that's because we're hurting and resent as you said that they seem to have their cake & eat it too. Try to remember that they are really hurting, as I said, many have strong thoughts of suicide. A fellow police friend of mine did take his life recently. They are not having a great time, this is an illness. When we understand that, it helps us let go of resentment & find forgiveness which helps us react so much better.

7:20 PM

wiffe

all good night. Got a headache going to go take some Tylenol.

6:21 PM

challenger3

cricket I have read that it does take 5 years. I know he has to go through the process. One of his friends bought him a ticket to visit California so he leaves tomorrow morning at 6 a.m. My understanding is there are no girls going but I do not know for sure. I told him to have a good time and kissed him good bye. You could see the tension, anxiousness and anger on his face.

6:23 PM

Cricket

challenger3 - I actually think that it is good if they do guy things. My H always wanted to go on a guy’s motorcycle across country.   He didn't do that until he split with the OW but has done it now. Those things can really help them work through fantasies.