Midlife Dimensions

6:01 PM

Swan

Hello everyone, welcome to Midlife Dimensions special Christmas chat.

6:02 PM

Tiger

hi brin swan

6:04 PM

brin

Hello everyone. Merry Christmas to you all. I hope you had a great time celebrating Christmas with friends and/or family.

6:04 PM

Pualani

Merry Christmas

6:04 PM

Tiger

Hi brin Pualani...

6:05 PM

brin

Hi Tiger, Pualani. How are you both?

6:05 PM

Tiger

brin - I’m doing ok and you?

6:05 PM

Pualani

Hi Swan, Brin and Tiger.

6:05 PM

Pualani

brin @;05 I'm well thank you.

6:07 PM

brin

Tiger :06, Doing good. Praise God for your H's and D's visit. What a blessing! At the same time, H may hide in his tunnel again - I agree with Cricket's cautionary email repsonse.

6:08 PM

Tiger

brin - yeah I know, and I am prepared for it, however I did talk to him 3 different times today via text..

6:09 PM

Pualani

Hey challenger3, welcome to chat - good to see you

6:09 PM

Tiger

brin - he was so nice yesterday... something different for a change

6:09 PM

brin

Pualani, What did you do for Christmas Eve and/or Day?

6:09 PM

challenger3

Hey Pualani! How are you?

6:09 PM

Tiger

hi challenger

6:10 PM

brin

Hey challenger3 - How are you?

6:10 PM

challenger3

Hey Tiger! and Brin

6:10 PM

brin

Tiger :10, I am glad he was nice.

6:13 PM

Tiger

brin - as I was saying.. he had a lot of fun riding the ATV's with the kids.

6:14 PM

Pualani

brin @;10 I was walking my dog, both days, plus my neighbor’s two dogs today as he's not well. I walked to the top of the highest hill in my area and could see for miles. I captured a runaway horse that had bucked off his young rider - quite scary for me as I had a bad fall from my horse in my teens and never really got my nerve back again. I came home and cooked Christmas dinner late and have been chilling since then. I didn't speak to any of my S although I called each one and left VM for them. How about you?

6:14 PM

brin

Tiger :14, Maybe the ATV thing was a good thing for him. They do say the MLCer goes back to their young years! ;) Maybe the ATV fit right in!

6:15 PM

Tiger

brin - He did REALLY like it... I’m glad I bought it.. he wasn’t planning on staying for dinner, so he said, but he did anyways.

6:15 PM

Pualani

Tiger @;13 It sounded like so much fun that you all had! :)

6:15 PM

brin

Pualani :14, What a heroine you are!!! Capturing a horse! My, I am scared of those creatures!

6:15 PM

Tiger

Pualani - yes, after everyone left I cried got on knees and thanked God.

6:16 PM

Pualani

brin @:14 Yes, that's a good observation! lol

6:16 PM

brin

Pualani :14, So sorry that you didn't get to talk to any of your sons! They don't know what they are missing out on! I had a lovely evening Christmas Eve with friends. Today, I was invited to a dinner party but decided to chill out at home. Been knitting a lot today to finish my coat. Also cooking, dishes and laundry.

6:16 PM

challenger3

brin and all, I hope you all had a good Christmas. Yesterday was good but a little rough as that is the big day for my family and he always loved it as it is a big present opening night. I had to laugh though because the kids had called H earlier in the day and he called back saying he had been busy etc. Then when he had to stop at his work he called back to talk to me about the cases that he bought the kids for the tablets that I bought them. Truly he did not have a reason for doing that.

6:17 PM

brin

Tiger :16, That's so cool! I can imagine God smiling about that!

6:18 PM

challenger3

brin and all, today he picked up the kids @ noon and he was in a very good and gentle mood. He left and the kids took the new tablets with them. He then had to text me about daughter dropping it and then I had to text him because of son downloading a ton of new apps. He ended up calling me while at one of their friend’s house which is very different for him. He was very kind to me again. Just strange but nice behavior for him.

6:18 PM

brin

Pualani :16, Huh? What good observation? That you were the heroine? Well, you were!

6:18 PM

Tiger

brin - I hope so.. I hope he wants to smile more... because I do.. ;)

6:18 PM

challenger3

Swan, How was your Christmas with your family? Probably nice to have them all around.

6:19 PM

brin

challenger3 :17, How considerate of your H. Sounds like a praise!

6:19 PM

Tiger

all- I went to 8am mass this morning, then went by my D's to see what all the GS got, then my sister and I and D32 went to see Parental Guidance.... such a good movie.. we laughed so much at the beginning, then cried so much at the end..

6:20 PM

Pualani

brin @:'15 Well, it came galloping down the path behind me and scared my dog - we both leaped out of the way. I was worried as it was trying to jump the hedge at the bottom of the hill, but there was barbed wire there and he kept stalling at the last moment thankfully! I called out soothing words to the horse, got my dog in my car and then grabbed his reins. He was huge and really restless! The rider eventually turned up with a wet backside and said a dog had lunged at her horse and spooked him. She got back on him and set off again, quite unperturbed!

6:20 PM

Swan

challenger3 - It was nice, we were at my daughter's last night and did the Santa thing this morning, now my son, DIL and grandson are at my DIL's parents with her family. I was invited, but wanted to be here so those who are having a difficult time or just want to fellowship can.

6:20 PM

brin

Tiger :20, Is Parental Guidance a comedy?

6:20 PM

Tiger

Swan @:20 Thank you

6:20 PM

Pualani

Tiger @;15 Good that you thanked God as I'm sure He was behind the events :)

6:21 PM

Tiger

brin - Yes, with Bette Midler and Billy Crystal

6:21 PM

brin

Pualani :20, Awww... how sweet!

6:21 PM

Tiger

Pualani - @:21 I couldn’t agree with you more

6:22 PM

brin

Swan :20, Oh it's sweet of you to be here tonight for us!

6:22 PM

Pualani

brin @:16 Ah, I did my dishes too - ugh! Would love to see your coat when it's done! Knitting is enjoying a revival these days isn't it?

6:22 PM

Tiger

all- I am starting to get that bad storm.. tornado warnings, raining, thunder and lightning.. hopefully my power won’t go out.

6:22 PM

brin

Tiger :22, Oh, I like Bette Midler, but not too sure I like Billy Crystal..

6:22 PM

Tiger

brin - It is worth it to go see.

6:22 PM

challenger3

Pualani, what an exciting day for you! I could not even stand to stand outside for about 10 minutes as it is in the mid 20s today! UGHH!!! Well that is an awesome memory.

6:23 PM

Swan

brin - it isn't just me, having special chats is something all us facilitators do for the group, we do it every year and here we are again tonight. Thank you Pualani and Brin for making time to be here as well.

6:23 PM

Pualani

challenger3 @;18 That's good to hear :)

6:23 PM

brin

Pualani :22, My dishes piled up just from making a pie for dinner last night!!!! But you know what? I think I am back into the groove of baking now. I think I might even bake 1 thing every Saturday I am home.. Alright, I'll post a picture of the coat on FB when I am done.

6:24 PM

Tiger

Thank you all for being here.

6:24 PM

challenger3

Swan, Well that sounds like a great time, very fun and pleasant. Watching the little ones is the best part of Christmas. Thank you for being here for all of us as well.

6:24 PM

brin

Tiger :23, Oops, I hope not.

6:24 PM

Pualani

brin @;18 Nooo, about MLC boys and their toys! lol

6:24 PM

Swan

challenger3 - my little one is 11 years old and as tall as me, but it was still fun all the same.

6:24 PM

brin

Swan :24, It's a pleasure Swan! We're a team!

6:25 PM

brin

Pualani :25, Ha ha ha - I see what you mean now. Yeah MLCer and their toys!

6:26 PM

Tiger

brin - @ :24 ?

6:26 PM

brin

Hi Yoli - how are you?

6:26 PM

Pualani

challenger3 @:23 Thank you - I was very brave to go so near to the horse, but if he were mine I'd like to think someone would try and stop him hurting himself

6:26 PM

brin

Hi yoli - how are you?

6:26 PM

Tiger

hi yoli

6:26 PM

challenger3

Swan, my son is 8 and a half and man he had a great time! My 13 year old is handling things OK but man she became an emotional mess last night after we left her Grandma's. It is all just so much on her. I think they were happy that they did not leave until noon today. My son received this hat and he loves it!

6:26 PM

Swan

Pualani - and a holiday like Christmas is a heck of an excuse for them to buy some bigger and better toys, isn't it!!

6:27 PM

yoli

brin, Tiger hello, I'm okay, how about you?

6:27 PM

Pualani

Swan @;23 I wasn't sure of my plans, but decided as I'd probably be up that I'd just drop in and see how things were going.

6:27 PM

brin

Tiger :24, Oh, Swan, brin and Pualani (and now yoli).

6:27 PM

challenger3

Pualani, Very true and I agree but still you were brave and I am sure it is something that you will not forget.

6:27 PM

Tiger

yoli - doing ok... Thank you for being here too

6:27 PM

challenger3

Hey Tiger, We must really need some help tonight - we have 4 facilitators!

6:27 PM

challenger3

Ha!

6:28 PM

Tiger

challenger3 - dang, I thought I was doing pretty good tonight

6:28 PM

yoli

Tiger Oh, I didn't have any big plans. In face I spent most of today alone. That's okay.

6:28 PM

yoli

challenger3 LOL.

6:28 PM

challenger3

Tiger, me too! Too funny. Really thanks to all of you for caring so much about all of us.

6:29 PM

Pualani

brin @;'24 I am loving my soup maker and gave my neighbor 2 portions of soup and he ate both in one go! I got a bread maker before Christmas but I haven't used it yet. I used to make bread when I first married, but my wrists aren't up to kneading these days! ;)

6:29 PM

brin

yoli :28, Not a problem. Thanks for dropping by though. I'm doing good. Had a great party last night. Today, taking it easy. How was your Christmas?

6:29 PM

Pualani

Hey Yoli, Merry Christmas!

6:29 PM

yoli

challenger3 We've all been where you guys are. Even though it's been a while it doesn't get any easier.

6:29 PM

Tiger

All- well I am still I guess on cloud nine from H coming over yesterday and talking to me 3 different times today via text...

6:30 PM

yoli

Pualani - Merry Christmas to you. Hope you have had a great day today.

6:30 PM

Swan

Pualani - when you get to making bread in the bread maker, you will love it and yes you don't have to do all that kneading.

6:30 PM

brin

Pualani :29, Yummy! What soup did you make? I love making bread (in the bread maker, of course)!

6:31 PM

challenger3

yoli, Yeah I know. It has been almost 2 years since H moved out (Jan 15) it is the official 2 year but this was the week that he told me that he had decided to move out. We are still negotiating our divorce settlement and I still miss him terribly but I am glad we are getting along.

6:31 PM

yoli

brin Wonderful. I'm glad you had a good party. Mine was okay. Daughters plus 1 were here last night. Rather than traditional Christmas food, daughter's boyfriend wanted chicken enchiladas, rice, guacamole, and beans. So that's what I made. It was good. Not many gifts but that was okay as well. I was very happy to have daughters here.

6:32 PM

challenger3

Tiger, Yeah for you!

6:32 PM

Tiger

Swan @:26- if it takes buying toys, shoot ill go buy something else next week..lol

6:32 PM

Pualani

challenger3 @:27 Since my bad fall I have been scared of horses although I did ride again. I have nightmares that I'm in the midst of horses milling around me and I'm afraid of being kicked. Perhaps God thought it was time I faced up to my fears?

6:32 PM

challenger3

Pualani, yes-probably. GOD has a funny way of making us face our fears doesn't he!

6:32 PM

Swan

Tiger - unfortunately in MLC, they bore quickly with the toys they think they just have to have.

6:33 PM

brin

yoli :32, Sounds lovely! I'm glad your daughters spent time with you! Today, I did think about my H and step kids! I get a sense that H was probably thinking about me more than he'd admit.

6:33 PM

Tiger

Swan - I know... I hoping the two legged toy gets boring pretty quick.. :}

6:33 PM

yoli

challenger3 Oh I'm sure you miss your husband very much. You wouldn't be typical. I miss mine terribly but it is what it is right now.

6:34 PM

brin

Swan :33, so true!

6:34 PM

Pualani

yoli @;28 My brother was going to be alone, but a new friend of his is facing his first Christmas alone after he and his wife separated and he was having a hard time, so my brother took him under his wing. The friend was so upset at not being able to spend Christmas with his children and to know that his wife has a new boyfriend who was staying over

6:34 PM

yoli

brin I bet your husband did think about you today. There's no way they can continue to have holidays, birthdays, etc. without them thinking about us.

6:35 PM

challenger3

Brin, I forgot to mention that when H called me earlier, he asked if I would meet him tomorrow night with the box to her new tablet as she has already broken the screen a little bit due to dropping it. Anyway, it is just weird with him as he stays away from us when I have the kids but when he has them it seems there is always a reason that I see them all within about 24 hours of him picking them up. Either he cannot keep them or sports etc.

6:35 PM

Swan

Tiger - well they do get tired of the 2 legged toys as well, some go home, some spend time alone and others find another 2 legged toy, and another... until they finally come through the MLC and stop trying to replace the reality of life with toys of any kind.

6:35 PM

brin

Pualani :35, How sad - another MLC casualty. It was very sweet of your brother to take him in though. How's your brother's GF doing?

6:36 PM

challenger3

Pualani @35 so sad!

6:36 PM

yoli

Pualani Wow, isn't that amazing how some so quickly find someone else. Poor friend. I feel sorry for him. I applaud your brother though. I think that was very nice of him to do this for a friend.

6:36 PM

brin

challenger3 :35, Maybe it's a compliment to you - that he thinks the kids need their mom?

6:36 PM

Pualani

yoli @;30 I did thank you. I was alone apart from collecting my neighbor’s dogs to walk. I watched a Christmas Carol service last night and read the story about the first Christmas from the Bible to my dog in bed. He listened intently!

6:36 PM

brin

Pualani :37, ha ha ha

6:37 PM

Tiger

Swan - I know, I'll just keep on hanging on, praying, and letting the good times like yesterday help me through it all.... one day at a time.

6:37 PM

yoli

All: My h birthday was on Saturday. He insisted that daughters be there along with the boyfriend of younger d. Older d took a picture of him. Then posted it on facebook. Oh my goodness I was shocked.

6:37 PM

Pualani

Swan @;30 I am so looking forward to it. It's another thing I've wanted to do for a long time along with growing herbs on my window sill which I now do! :)

6:37 PM

yoli

Pualani Funny. I'm glad you did things to keep busy though.

6:38 PM

brin

yoli :35, I know. Christmas has always been a big thing for him. He would buy many little presents for me. One year, he got a little gift for every day in December until Christmas Day.

6:38 PM

Pualani

brin @:30 Leek and Potato. I'm in good company having a bread maker then? ;)

6:38 PM

brin

yoli :38, And I did miss him today. Strange because I don't remember thinking much about him last year.

6:38 PM

challenger3

brin, Oh yeah, H only used OW for one week to transport kids to and from a summer camp that he enrolled them into close to her. Otherwise, he never leaves the kids with her or any of his friends. In fact, I do not even think they ride alone with her very often. He says that I am their mother and no one else is. He respects that a lot and always has-I have always found that to be a good sign.

6:38 PM

brin

Pualani :39, oooo - 1 of my favorite soups. May I have the recipe please?

6:39 PM

yoli

All: I’m almost 3 years older than him but he looks so much older and just overall bad. Older d said that the bags under and around his eyes are gigantic.

6:39 PM

Swan

Pualani - I think my favorite bread is sunflower seed wheat bread, it is so yum and warm with fresh sweet butter!!!

6:39 PM

Pualani

challenger3 @:33 :}

6:39 PM

yoli

brin It has to mean something for you to think so hard about him.

6:40 PM

brin

yoli :39, Due to the MLC ... perhaps?

6:40 PM

Pualani

brin @:35 She is still battling the cancer and back in hospital for the next round of chemo - thanks for asking. He's not heard from her today - sometimes they have to sedate her to make her rest

6:41 PM

Pualani

yoli @:36 I do too and told him I was proud of him

6:41 PM

Swan

yoli - my husband always had a baby face, looked much younger than he was, but when I saw the pictures of him at my daughter's wedding, I was shocked at how old he looks now and in just a few short years. I guess adultery wears on the soul and body!

6:41 PM

brin

challenger3 :39, That is a praise that your H insists that you are the mother of his kids! That's huge!

6:41 PM

yoli

brin That's exactly what some prayer friends have said. Have been told that when we are not living according to God's will, we look like this. Just haggard. He was so very handsome before all of this happened.

6:42 PM

Pualani

brin @;39 Of course, I'll email it to you.

6:42 PM

Pualani

brb, doggy needs to go out...

6:42 PM

brin

Pualani :42, Thank you? BTW, never heard of a soup-maker contraption... Maybe the same as a crock-pot?

6:42 PM

yoli

Swan That's exactly right. Just the horrible way of living. So it's not just having eyes that look dead but their overall physical appearance really seems to show their choices don't agree with them.

6:43 PM

brin

yoli :43, Reminds me of what David the Psalmist said .... that until he repented, he felt terrible - don't remember the exact words.

6:43 PM

Tiger

All- I told H yesterday that he looked good. He said, well I’m putting the weight back on.

6:43 PM

Swan

yoli - oh yeah it starts with dead eyes, but seems to move to the entire body with time.

6:44 PM

Pualani

Ugh, pouring with rain - for a CHANGE! ;)

6:44 PM

yoli

All: I hadn't seen my h since younger daughter graduated 3 1/2 years ago. It just made me so sad to see him. So he's been weighing heavy on my mind and I've tried to just pray more for him.

6:44 PM

brin

yoli :40, Yeah, maybe. I just prayed for him each time I thought of him. I also prayed that his anger would be directed towards the rightful place, instead of me! ;)

6:44 PM

yoli

brin Really. I'll have to look it up.

6:44 PM

Pualani

Swan @;39 Oh stop! I'll need to get it fired up straight away!

6:44 PM

brin

yoli :45, I'll try to find it

6:45 PM

yoli

You go brin. That's how we need to pray.

6:45 PM

Tiger

yoli - 3 1/2 years??? I don’t think I could do that. :(

6:46 PM

yoli

Swan Yeah. I had heard this before but was just shocked. He was so incredibly vain even with the receding hairline. It was inevitable for him to lose his hair but the rest of him just shocked me. You know that his choice to leave has also caused a lot of health issues with me and girls. But I thank God that I was able to figure things out and don't think it's too late.

6:46 PM

Pualani

brin @:42 No, it's a cross between an electric kettle and a liquidizer - and amazing! You're supposed to get on with other things while it does it's thing, but I end up gazing at it for the whole cycle! lol

6:47 PM

Tiger

brin - Ya know mine has yelled at me for years, and I’ve taken it... I have been told by many that there is no one else that would put up with what I have put up with... so I kind of hopes he still yells somewhere... because it hasn’t been me too much lately.

6:48 PM

brin

Swan - Do you know which Psalm of David mentions how he was feeling so bad when he was hiding his sin?

6:48 PM

Pualani

Swan @:43 yes, the shark eyes. I can remember with shock when I first saw my H's eyes looking like that, soul-less I think you could describe them as...

6:48 PM

brin

Pualani :47, he he he

6:48 PM

yoli

Tiger It wasn't my choice. He has no contact with me at all. This is also how long he's been shacking up with the OP. I think he's afraid that she will rip a new one into him. She's ugly, mean, and nasty all rolled up into one. He's made the choice to stay in this situation though. So all I can do is pray. I know there's going to come a point in time when he can't run and hide anymore. Younger daughter will be graduating from college, older d from graduate school. I'm sure a wedding or 2 will come up.

6:49 PM

Pualani

yoli @;44 That's good Yoli, to hold him up in prayer. I too have been praying more for my H and family - especially my children

6:49 PM

Swan

brin - Psalm 51 comes to mind.

6:49 PM

brin

Tiger :48, Yeah. My H blamed me for many things. Now, he hopefully has nothing to blame me for, except the past of course... ;) He also dwells on the past. That's why I have been praying for him to direct his anger somewhere else.

6:50 PM

yoli

Pualani It's all that I can do under the circumstances. Have seen some minor changes in girls but at least they don't lash out at me.

6:50 PM

Pualani

Tiger @;47 I for one am pleased that your H isn't yelling at you so much! Girl you don't deserve that sort of treatment

6:50 PM

Tiger

brin - mine also dwells on the past... I finally sent him a email last week and asked him if he could please put the truck issue in a box and lock it up and throw away the key.

6:50 PM

yoli

Pualani Tiger None of us deserve that kind of treatment.

6:51 PM

brin

Swan :49, Thanks. I think there is another Psalm... or else I must be going crazy

6:51 PM

Swan

brin - I think the soup maker might be similar to the vita mixer here, it will cook the ingredients and can also blend them to creamier soups.

6:51 PM

Pualani

brin @;48 Hey Brin, I thought of you today as I parked up where you started your coastal walk in 2011. I took some photos of the sea as the sun was going down...

6:52 PM

yoli

Tiger I think all our h dwell on the past because it helps justify what they are doing. They also like to change history. It's the script they have all gotten and are not only reading but memorizing it!!

6:52 PM

brin

Tiger :51, ha ha ha

6:52 PM

Tiger

Pualani - I know... but it is so hard when you love someone so very much... My BF told me it must be unconditionally, because she would NO WAY put up with it.. she seen his anger once a few years back on a vacation we had taken with them. He got mad because I did something that he didn’t want me to do, so he BLEW UP!!!

6:52 PM

Pualani

brin @;49 Apparently my H is STILL blaming me for all that is going wrong in his life!!!

6:52 PM

brin

Pualani :52, Ohhh - please send me some pictures! I still want to visit again some day...

6:52 PM

Pualani

yoli @;50 That's good to hear

6:52 PM

yoli

Pualani Well of course he is.

6:53 PM

Swan

brin - maybe Psalm 38, there are so many of the Psalms when he reflects his sins and talks of his depression.

6:53 PM

Pualani

yoli @:51 That's true :)

6:53 PM

brin

Swan :52, Interesting - I will have to look it up. Blending it all up without having to switch containers must be a plus!

6:53 PM

challenger3

All, Sorry H had kids call me to say good night. Obviously an early night for them as they are already headed to his house from their Christmas with OW and friends. Anyway, my H is looking more and more like his old self. He smiles a little more when he is here to pick up kids. However his hair has a lot more gray in it. He is putting his weight back on. Not sure but I really think he is doing better. His eyes do not look as lifeless anymore

6:54 PM

brin

yoli :52, Bingo! Their script also contains re-written history!

6:54 PM

Swan

brin - the vita mixer is awesome and will do way more than make soup.

6:54 PM

yoli

Pualani Yep. Mine seems to be going through and doing things that are classic MLC. If you look it up in dictionary or Wikipedia, you would probably find my h picture and life history there.

6:54 PM

brin

Pualani :53, How unreasonable and insane it is, huh?

6:54 PM

Tiger

brin - I think it was last Monday that he brought up the truck thing again... how much he resents me for that.. then the next day is when I sent him the email.... I guess he took it ok

6:55 PM

Pualani

Tiger @;52 Perhaps now would be a good time for your H to learn that it's not acceptable - out of respect for you

6:55 PM

Tiger

challenger3 -@:54 :)

6:55 PM

brin

Swan :55, I will have to look this one up then! Thanks for the tip!

6:55 PM

yoli

Tiger I don't know if no response is good because they do tend to keep a laundry list of things that we have done to make their lives miserable.

6:55 PM

brin

yoli :55, ha ha ha. I laughed out loud!

6:56 PM

Pualani

brin @;52 Well, I'm walking more so I may be able to walk a little with you - and stop off for scones?

6:56 PM

Tiger

yoli - well he came over yesterday, so I guess I assume he didn’t get mad over it?

6:56 PM

brin

Tiger :55, sweet...

6:56 PM

challenger3

Tiger, @48. My H had yelled at me a lot when we first got together so much so that my BF did not want me to date him anymore. I had told him that if he cannot control his temper and behavior that I had to walk away. He calmed down for many years and then I noticed after his Dad died that he slowly started the yelling again. He has claimed that he does not yell as much anymore but according to kids that is not true at all so I would say your H is probably still yelling as well

6:56 PM

Pualani

yoli @:53 lol

6:56 PM

yoli

Tiger Maybe he didn't. That's good.

6:56 PM

yoli

Pualani brin What can I say, I'm a smart alec (not really the word I want to use). But it's so true.

6:57 PM

Pualani

brin @;53 That's what drew me to it - plus it's so quick! ;)

6:57 PM

brin

Pualani :56, Hmmm - now you are making me hungry! There's a cafe we passed last time that we didn't stop at. I'd love to stop there sometime. Looking forward to walking with you sis!

6:58 PM

brin

challenger3 :57, I bet with the MLC he'd be yelling even more... Hopefully less now if he's coming out of it.

6:58 PM

yoli

All: Well d boyfriend is a computer engineer and I need him to check my laptop. I think there's a virus cause I keep losing internet service. I'm going to see my parents so I won't be around for a while. Stay strong. Thanks.

6:58 PM

Tiger

challenger3 even his old secretary has seen his anger and said that NO ONE would put up with that... well I guess I was a fool.. ya know what’s kind of funny.... I grew up with my father yelling at us for everything.. I hated it, as did my B and S. I said I would never put up with anything like my mom did.... and look at me

6:59 PM

brin

Pualani :57 Well, how quick is your "quick"?

6:59 PM

Swan

All - something I read today and found very interesting: It is important to understand that healing is a process. The process can be separated into two main principles: release and receive. We must release trapped negative emotions before we can receive positive feelings. The old must go to make space for the new. We often want to skip this step, but it is a necessary one. We must be willing to experience the cleansing if we truly desire healing. Resisting the cleansing process makes healing more painful. We must surrender to the experience so that we may continue on the path of healing. The more we let go and trust, the more enjoyable this healing process can be.

7:00 PM

challenger3

brin, I just do not know if he is coming out of it. If he is, he is seeming calmer and happier which would mean that he is not regretting his decision and is happy with OW and his new life. I am trying to not let that thought continue with me but I really am worried that he is happier and maybe is better with her.

7:00 PM

Swan

brin - most vita mixers can be used to juice too.

7:01 PM

brin

Swan :59, It does make sense. I think the 12 step program does this. We confess of our sins, and our hurts, and forgive (let go) first. Then we are ready to have our character defects be removed.

7:02 PM

Pualani

yoli @;54 I know it's sad, but I am stifling a giggle as I find it hard to believe that they still DENY it even when they show all the symptoms. BTW, I think you'll find it's my H pictured under the MLC definition! ;)

7:02 PM

challenger3

Tiger, It sounds like you and I married the same man. My neighbors all said that they could hear H yelling at daughter etc. Friends all told me how much of a jerk he was to me before he left. Friends would tell me how much Drama his FB had on it. Many said we do not know how you dealt with it. Truth is I had a temper too so I do not think I realized all that we had turned into. I also had a strained relationship with my father as well

7:02 PM

Pualani

brin @:59 Less than 20 mins?

7:02 PM

brin

challenger3 :00, Time will tell whether he's coming out of it or not. Remember it's also God's timing and His timing is the best.

7:03 PM

brin

Swan :01, That's good. I already have a juicer.. What brand is your vitamix?

7:03 PM

Pualani

Swan @;59 I wonder if that release ties in with us forgiving H and OW? I found it really helped me move forward...

7:03 PM

Swan

challenger3 - my husband was extremely happy with his new relationship with the other woman for a time, several months, then all hell broke loose and so did they, in fact life has been so wonderful, they filed for divorce three times in one year. They didn't follow through, but my husband admitted to our daughter one time that he was getting what he deserved and was stuck with his poor choice. The kids say they will put on a good face for a time, but if the visit includes overnight, the stress of the truth begins to show.

7:03 PM

brin

Pualani :03, That's pretty quick!

7:04 PM

Tiger

challenger3 - yes , after being with him so long, I turned into a pessimist, quick temper, not happy, .. but now I am happy, I don’t lose my temper, I’m back to being optimist, BUT I still LOVE HIM SO MUCH, and I hope he can change through all of this too.

7:04 PM

brin

Swan :04, Did your kids tell your H that he doesn't have to be stuck with his bad choice?

7:04 PM

challenger3

Swan @00. I think that makes sense and I know that is true in my case. Once I started praying for GOD to help me to forgive H and OW and then started praying for OW and H, I found I started to heal. Then when I started to give over my sins to the LORD and asked him to change me I have been better.

7:05 PM

challenger3

Tiger, same here. My H even told me one time that not everything is always Rainbows and puppy dogs and sometimes we have to hear the hard stuff. Well trust me it is not me who cannot hear or handle the hard stuff.

7:06 PM

Swan

brin - I don't have one at this time, it didn't make the trip with me, no room for it. I can't remember the brand, just that it was called Vita mixer.

7:06 PM

Tiger

challenger3 - I’ve been praying for OW for some time now.. it was so hard at first, but now, it’s kind of easy...

7:06 PM

Pualani

Tiger @:04 You know my Mom said she had seen a change in me since H left and I thought she meant in a negative way, but she told me it was nice to hear me laugh now and I realized I was so weighed down with anxiety in trying to minimize anything setting off my H's temper that my own life was on hold - but no more!

7:06 PM

Swan

Pualani - I believe so, when we can't or don't forgive, it isn't the person that we are punishing it is ourselves.

7:07 PM

brin

Swan :06, I just looked it up on Amazon.com and it costs between $300-$500!!

7:07 PM

Tiger

Pualani - I know, I’ve had people tell me that too... but again... I don’t want to lose H over it

7:07 PM

challenger3

Swan, thank you! I know that Cricket's H said the same except that he did divorce her. I have thought for a long time that if they ever moved in/took it to the next level that it would break up because according to both kids, she does not see their true father. Plus as I have stated, I think H helps with her son a lot but she does not help with our kids very much. I know that H deals with her daughters but they are teenagers and cannot imagine how that will go if he is living there. I just think that living with each other is soo much more different than dating. I think even kids take it differently. At least when the kids do not want to deal with OP and have their parent to themselves they can but when they move in, now they are invading space. I am just so worried of what that reality is going to look like, especially for my daughter who is already worried about it happening.

7:08 PM

Swan

brin - Oh yeah, my daughter has reminded him that he always has a home with me and I, for whatever reason keep forgiving him. She says he just nods his head, looks down in shame and says I deserve better.

7:08 PM

Pualani

Swan @:07 I believe that is so true! And LOVE I believe is the key to it all. As in Corinthians, ' but these three remain, faith hope and love, but the greatest of these is love'

7:09 PM

brin

challenger3 :08, In my H's case, God helped me see that it had to take H marrying OW to be convinced that he can't blame me anymore for his anger issues.

7:09 PM

brin

Swan :09, Ohhh - that's too sad!

7:09 PM

Pualani

brin @:07 Hey, looks like you may need to pick one up when you visit me?

7:09 PM

Swan

brin - wow, they are that much, mine was a gift from my husband the year before he started the adultery.

7:09 PM

Pualani

Has anyone heard if Cricket made her drive OK?

7:10 PM

brin

Pualani :10, Yeah maybe... BTW, I am so glad that you have your laugh back and your good self back sis!

7:10 PM

Pualani

Tiger @;07 Mom tells me my H will be a new creation in Christ Jesus and I believe only He can do that for anyone

7:11 PM

brin

All, I got to run now. It's been nice visiting with you all. Have a great rest of the week, k? (((Hugs)))

7:11 PM

buttons

oh there everyone is

7:12 PM

Tiger

Pualani - I believe you are right.. I have one good thing going and that is that H's parents are real religious and he has been spending a lot of time with them. He is going over tomorrow as a matter of fact. They have been married for 54 years

7:12 PM

Tiger

buttons - hey

7:12 PM

buttons

Tiger hey there

7:12 PM

Pualani

brin @;09 I think my H will still blame me for EVERYTHING. You know the state of the world's finances? Well, that's all down to me, as are the melting glaciers and the sky high fuel prices. You didn't know I wielded so much power did you? ;)

7:13 PM

challenger3

brin, The hard part for me is that I agree with you. My H has always needed to see it for himself and go through it. Taking my advice was never one of his strong suits. Anyway, I really feel that the only way he will hit that rock bottom place is either by her breaking up with him or them living together so they can see each other as they really are. I just do not know how much more I can take from daughter. As far as I can tell OW is not there to take care of him financially at all

7:13 PM

Pualani

Hey buttons, you're back in. Merry Christmas!

7:13 PM

Swan

challenger3 - well my husband cannot stand her three sons and they cannot stand him. The older two were grown and the youngest the other woman gave custody of to her 2nd husband because she didn't want her son to create problems in her relationship with my husband. Sad isn't it, but she did the same thing with her two older boys and first marriage, she gave custody to their dad so they wouldn't create problems with her second husband. It is a cycle with her and at some point she will replace my husband with her next "new life", at least they don't have any children to be left behind as well.

7:13 PM

challenger3

Hey buttons!

7:13 PM

buttons

Pualani I was in but not in right room... was sitting there for over 40 mins

7:13 PM

buttons

challenger3 hey there!

7:14 PM

brin

Swan - Just very quickly - I found the Psalm I was looking for - Psalm 32 - Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. 2 Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit. 3 For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. 4 For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. Selah

7:14 PM

brin

Bye again...

7:14 PM

Pualani

Tiger @:12 They should be a good example of how a marriage can be WORKED at successfully :)

7:14 PM

Swan

Pualani - she doesn't get very good connections up in the mountains, so we will have to wait until she gets back home.

7:15 PM

Pualani

brin @:14 Thanks Brin!

7:15 PM

buttons

All just having a rough time... H has gone to bed (an hour ago) while I was talking to my aunt... D never even said Merry Christmas today and didn't even tell me (us) plans for today... I'm the bad guy because she hasn't paid enough rent both in H's eyes and D's because I keep trying to remind her of it.... I feel like I was/am a terrible parent and terrible wife.... thought I did really well on H's presents but didn't feel like that... he did well on mine though

7:15 PM

challenger3

Swan, I think you have told me about your Hs OW before but it is so sad! The amount of pain that she is leaving behind.

7:16 PM

Tiger

Pualani - yes.. that is what I am hoping for..I truly think he wants ours to make it... deep down I believe that.. just something tells me... FAITH I guess.

7:16 PM

Pualani

buttons @:14 Oh no! We all had problems getting in today - glad you are here now though!

7:16 PM

buttons

Pualani thanks... might have helped if I'd checked for another room

7:17 PM

Pualani

buttons @:15 Sorry to hear you're having a tough day (((((((HUGS)))))))

7:18 PM

Pualani

Tiger @;16 Jesus said we only need faith as small as a mustard seed...

7:19 PM

Pualani

buttons @;16 The lights were on, but no-one was at home?

7:19 PM

buttons

Pualani thanks... it started not too bad but really slipped when D never even said a thing, then S didn't say anything to his Dad right away.... now H is in bed sleeping (has been for over an hour) and likely won't see D tonight.... learned of her plans from my mom yesterday otherwise I wouldn't even have known what she was doing or where she was

7:19 PM

Tiger

Pualani - well my faith is a whole lot bigger than that.. and I have had it for quite some time now... I never have lost it yet,,, sometimes I feel like I want to give up, but my faith won’t let me

7:19 PM

challenger3

buttons-BIG (((((((HUG))))) to you.. I am not sure that I understand all that happened but I am very sure that you are not a bad wife/Mom.

7:20 PM

Swan

challenger3 - Well, she was abandoned as a baby, her mother was involved with a man who informed her he was already married when she became pregnant and expected him to marry her, so she put the other woman up of adoption and even though I am told her adoptive parents were great, spoiled her, never abused her, etc. she never seemed to get over what the two parents she has never known did. And she hasn't been able to maintain a relationship since, she is always looking for the next better relationship the instant she isn't happy. It does take her awhile to actually move from one to the other, she seems to need to secure in the replacement relationship, but I guess she has extremely low in self esteem and worth, sadly she is leaving a wake of destruction behind her as she searches for whatever it is she believes will make it all better for her. Her prior husbands, her three sons, her second husband and his family that he left to marry her, my husband and his family that he also left to marry her, her adoptive parents who have to watch her in her self-destructive behavior, etc.

7:20 PM

Pualani

buttons @:19 Oh dear... Are you doing something nice for YOU?

7:20 PM

buttons

Pualani hehehe yup... was sitting in an empty room and my lights are feeling rough right now :)

7:21 PM

Pualani

Tiger @;19 I was meaning your H. That he might grasp just what he already has instead of looking over the fence into the greener grass next door - as it were

7:22 PM

buttons

challenger3 thanks... I don't understand all that happened... just feel that our D not even telling me about her plans and then leaving without even a morning or good bye today was ouch...

7:22 PM

Tiger

Pualani - I’m hoping...

7:22 PM

Tiger

Pualani - did I tell you what I told him last Monday? about OW?

7:22 PM

Pualani

buttons @;21 It's tough isn't it? We try and be the mediator and end up being the kicked cat as it's our fault if it doesn't go right, sigh...

7:23 PM

buttons

Pualani right now I am stuffed full of turkey (made a 10lb one for two!) and trying to figure out what to do next

7:23 PM

Pualani

buttons @;22 It was rude and disrespectful!

7:23 PM

challenger3

Swan, my daughter has been struggling due to the fact that her natural mother could not raise her either. She is craving that relationship and she knows that I am her Mom and she completely trusts me and knows that without me she would not have very much but in the end I still do not compare in some ways to her natural mother. I fear that if we cannot get her past all of that along with what her father has done that she is going to struggle with self esteem issues and be similar to your Hs OW.

7:23 PM

Pualani

Tiger @;23 Remind me

7:24 PM

Pualani

buttons @;23 Roll onto the couch?

7:24 PM

Pualani

Hey Bluesky, where are you? Merry Christmas!

7:24 PM

challenger3

buttons, Yes I agree. That was rude and disrespectful. I also hate it when I see children living off of their parents when they are capable of taking on their fair share. Truly she should give you what you are owed without you coercing her or reminding her.

7:26 PM

challenger3

Hey Bluesky! Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!!!

7:26 PM

Tiger

Pualani - well when D29 found out about OW, she called H and H called me... After talking for awhile I told him... I said ya know, she is going to throw you to the curb just like she has done ALL the rest, I’ll be here for you when she does, and you know that, what is the matter with you. You are so much smarter than that, can’t you see you are losing respect at the office because of that?

7:26 PM

Pualani

Bluesky, you've been in my prayers since your news

7:26 PM

Bluesky

Pualani lol oh dear

7:26 PM

buttons

Pualani part of H's rants at the start were that I always stepped in when he was disciplining and didn't respect him in that area and yes, I recognize that I did... now he just leaves it all to me since he sees the house as mine (as he muttered in his "sleep" last night).... S put his finger on it when he commented that things with D are causing stress... yes it was not very respectful of her

7:27 PM

Tiger

Pualani - I thought for sure I had really screwed up.. but he was very quiet and listened the whole time. We ended up talking for a hour... then when I didn’t hear anything from him I KNEW I had messed up, but then he showed up yesterday...

7:27 PM

Pualani

Tiger @;26 Yes, I remember. Sadly they have to get this realization for themselves though - they are sort of deluded that what they see isn't the same as what everyone else does - like the naked emperor's new clothes...

7:27 PM

buttons

Bluesky hehehe at least I wasn't the only one!

7:28 PM

Tiger

Hi Bluesky

7:28 PM

Bluesky

Pualani well for the most part okay, I just found out where he went on his honeymoon. And just a couple of hours ago found out he is with his family. Yet, his kids and I are here.

7:28 PM

Pualani

buttons @;27 Your H has a hard job keeping a lid on things as he gives it all away in his sleep

7:28 PM

Bluesky

buttons Tiger Swan, hi all.

7:28 PM

Swan

challenger3 - it is so easy to wonder what was wrong with you that your own parent didn't want you. I know for years I blamed myself for my father not having a relationship with me, then I invented a fantasy where he wanted to be with me but was kept from it. When all was said and done, as an adult after I actually found him and we began a relationship, I had to finally one day face it was never going to be a dream father / daughter relationship and at some point I began to see how much effort I was putting into it and not getting the same from him. I guess I became defeated and accepted the Christmas card relationship, sadly when he was near the end of his life, he wanted more from me and I just didn't have it to give.

7:28 PM

Swan

Hey Bluesky

7:29 PM

challenger3

buttons, H said I did the same thing-undermined his discipline in front of the children and then embarrassed him in public as well. However, just the other day, our son was upset about not getting a sandwich from a fast food restaurant. When H talked with him about he said "it was not your mother's decision she was just re and then stopped and changed his word to doing as I requested so you did not ruin the dinner I brought home." I know he was getting ready to say respect me

7:29 PM

Bluesky

Swan all, does anyone know how mas is doing? I sent a card out yesterday. I just can't imagine the pain.

7:29 PM

Pualani

Tiger @;27 Now that you've said that just step back and let him deal with it. Really it's like taking trainer wheels off a bike - they have to deal with the situation themselves

7:29 PM

Swan

Bluesky - haven't heard.

7:30 PM

buttons

challenger3 our D has been through some rough spots over the last year and half, she has now got herself in quite a mess and is not getting herself out too well... she has said she'd appreciate help with budgeting, which is one thing that got drowned in her mess, she was SO good until things went off for her (she got sick, has struggled since and depression has stepped up a few times lately too--- not good and I'm trying to find way to guide without....)

7:30 PM

Tiger

Pualani - yep that’s what I intend on doing... That’s one reason I was so happy yesterday when he came over..

7:30 PM

Pualani

Bluesky @;28 I am so sorry that this is happening right now at such a Holy time of year too

7:31 PM

Pualani

Bluesky @;29 I've been thinking of her and praying for her too...

7:31 PM

Bluesky

Pualani how was your day?

7:32 PM

Pualani

Tiger @:30 Just cherish those precious times and store them in your heart to tide you over the not-so-good times that may come

7:32 PM

buttons

challenger3 my H grew up in abusive foster homes and often his response to things was over what was needed, I know what I did could have been done differently but I was young and truly didn't know better

7:32 PM

Tiger

Pualani - most definately :)

7:33 PM

Pualani

Bluesky @;32 Quiet and peaceful, thanks for asking. Well apart from stopping an escaping horse, it was quiet! No word from any of my sons, but I left each of them VM

7:33 PM

challenger3

Swan, that is true for my daughter in a lot of ways. Before I say this part, please know that I never bring her natural mother up nor what happened to her-daughter does. Anyway, we were in a big argument one night and she told me that her real mother was a good Mom because she could have aborted me and she didn't. She made her sound like a saint to me. I was so offended but in truth it is the way she has looked at a lot of this. Our therapist is working through all of that with us.

7:34 PM

Pualani

All, it's almost morning for me, so I'm going to head for bed now! Wishing you all a blessed rest of the day with loads of (((((((HUGS))))))) and for you to remember how much Jesus loves you!

7:35 PM

challenger3

buttons and all, My H really does still look at me as their mother and go to for everything with them, however, if they move in or ever marry I know that will change because she will have to put more effort into them. Anyway, my point is that H always talks about how his mother raised them and his came home from traveling for his job to be the strong hand. right now that is what I see him doing in some ways. Staying away and then coming in to tell me and the kids what to do.

7:35 PM

Tiger

Pualani - good night, thank you for being here

7:35 PM

Bluesky

Pualani okay, well would never have thought stopping an escaping horse would be in your list today. I am sorry they aren't playing nice. Especially when you have precious grandbabies.

7:35 PM

challenger3

Good night Pualani! Blessings and I will pray that your sons will call you!

7:35 PM

buttons

Pualani well in his "sleep" since sometimes I wonder how asleep he really is but yeah

7:35 PM

Bluesky

Pualani nice to see you. Sending hugs

7:36 PM

buttons

All sounds like D is home so I will go give her a hug at least

7:36 PM

Bluesky

buttons something happen?

7:36 PM

Pualani

Tiger Thanks! Bluesky I did get my GS ready for bed on Sunday - so precious to me! challenger3 I would so love that, thanks! buttons Go heap some burning coals on her head ;)

7:36 PM

challenger3

buttons @31. I understand. I have a brother that is very similar but now that he has a job that he loves he seems to be handling things better

7:37 PM

Pualani

Bye!

7:38 PM

Swan

challenger3 - my step father was a very abusive man and in my mind I created my natural father into a man he honestly wasn't, even after I met him I kept that image of him, it took a long time for the shine of my fantasies about my father to show the true tarnish. Regret is a monster, when my father was near the end, he reached out to all of his children (two older sons from marriage one and marriage two and my younger brother, plus me). My father honestly could not understand why the oldest didn't want anything at all to do with him, my brother was polite, but nothing grew from it, the middle son tried so hard to win daddy's love but never could see to measure up and I, his only daughter tried for years, but finally accepted the reality and just couldn't open myself up when my father wanted it to change. He finally had regret in the end, but it was honestly too late for those he threw away. But then his regret included his telling others how ungrateful his children all were.   This coming from a man who threw us away when he tossed our mother's aside for his next wife, a man who didn't pay child support to any of his children unless the courts were on him and even then, it only happened a few months, then it was back to no support payments until the mother got the courts involved again. He created the relationships with his children, yet blamed us for these relationships being what they were.

7:38 PM

Bluesky

Tiger did you have a good day?

7:39 PM

Tiger

Bluesky - yes, I went to 8 am mass, went and seen what my GS got from Santa, went to see a movie with my sister and D32, and talked with H 3 different times via texts

7:40 PM

challenger3

Swan, just so sad really. Daughter's natural Mom has changed and really does want a relationship with our daughter. I have had to say No because I just know she is not mature enough for it. We have allowed letters to come and be sent back and forth but after a major fit from her I had to say No. She just cannot deal with it all emotionally. Really H leaving re-established her attachment losses and then to have bipolar/emotional disturbance on top of it all just does not go well.

7:42 PM

Bluesky

Tiger awesome. what movie

7:43 PM

Tiger

Bluesky - Parental Guidance.. with Bette Midler and Billy Crystal.. it was so good.. we laughed so hard at the beginning and cried at the ending

7:43 PM

challenger3

Swan, it is so hard for me. In my life, it is GOD, Spouse and Kids. I will do whatever it takes to help my children become successful, loving and caring adults with a solid future. I want them to be able to take care of themselves and their families so they are not dependent on me or their father. However, it is hard when I know she needs the relationship with her natural mother but she is not ready. It is also hard since I said I will take care of her while you cannot. Just irks me

7:43 PM

Bluesky

Tiger oh, I just heard about it.

7:43 PM

challenger3

Tiger, I want to see that movie plus the movie about being 40 really bad!

7:44 PM

Tiger

Bluesky - Yes it just came out today... go see it if you get a chance

7:44 PM

Bluesky

Tiger well not sure I want to cry. lol

7:44 PM

Tiger

Bluesky - it’s a good cry

7:45 PM

Swan

challenger3 - hopefully your daughter will understand you didn't allow her to have a relationship with her natural mother for her own safety and security. I once found a letter from my father's mother and it was asking for communication with me and my brother. It was attached to the court papers denying the communication and I didn't give my mother a chance to voice her reasons, I just hated her for it and our relationship was strained for years, it took me becoming a mother myself to understand why she said no. There was no way my grandparents would have hurt us and they genuinely wanted to be in contact with us, but my mother was protecting us in her own mind because of how my father was. It is so hard when the children are young and adding the bi polar is definitely a major complication.

7:47 PM

challenger3

Swan, she says she does understands then she can be angry about it. the only saving GRACE that I have is that I have allowed letters and I am very close with her natural Grandmother. I just took her and my daughter to see a play. Her Grandma has also kind of adopted my son as well. So she has helped to back me up.

7:52 PM

challenger3

All, well thanks to everyone for being here. Merry Christmas to all. I guess I am going to go!

7:53 PM

buttons

Bluesky no just wanted to say Hi to her because she didn't say anything today

7:54 PM

Bluesky

buttons you didn't have Christmas together.

7:54 PM

Tiger

All- well I think I’m going to go too. I have an early Depo in the morning and I have to work tomorrow night. I have to go in early do I will not be here tomorrow night..

7:54 PM

buttons

Pualani well I didn't do that did say Hi to her

7:54 PM

buttons

Bluesky nope

7:54 PM

Tiger

Good night

7:57 PM

Swan

Well all, the room is going to close soon, hope everyone had a nice Christmas and continues to trust in the Lord for all their needs and desires.

7:58 PM

buttons

ALL UGH H got up as D came up for a minute... mentioned rent to her... RGH

7:58 PM

buttons

Swan take care

7:59 PM

Bluesky

goodnight all.

7:59 PM

buttons

night sawn