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April 03, 2019 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Little Magpie: bill - h has not been the best communicator but the kids made up for that. Now that potentially we have no kids and it's just us, it's more important

Bill: Little Magpie: Just from a "guy" perspective, most of us will avoid talking and shut down when we feel pressure to talk. I know it is immature and silly but men have a deep aversion to activities they don't believe they can succeed at. I still see it in me with Pam and we have a strong relationship. If I sense Pam is pushing or is critical, I have to fight hard to stay engaged. I don't know if this is part of your dynamic but I suspect your H is feeling the "pressure" to be better as your D is getting ready to grow up.


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April 03, 2019 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Bill: Good evening Swan.

Brin: Hello Bill & Swan

Swan: Hi Brin, Bill hasn't made it in yet tonight. He normally lets me know in advance if he can't make it, so I am not sure if he will or not.

Swan: Brin - How are you this week?

Brin: Swan, I'm doing ok but am struggling with H some. Bill must be pretty busy lately because I was expecting to get some feedback from him for my counseling stuff but he probably hasn't had time to get to it yet.

Brin: Hi Swan, H gave me a hard time last night when I asked for originals of his documents that I was asked to submit for my citizenship application. Today was the interview. He ended up giving them to me after he thought over the conversation.

Swan: Brin - I know they had some speaking events the last part of March, but haven't heard of any for April yet.

Brin: Swan, how are you doing?

Swan: Brin - Your husband sounds like a person that needs to have control over all situations and your citizenship documents appear to give him some type of control. Sadly there are just people in the world that are so insecure about themselves that they attempt to control others and situations around them, it is how they cope with their own fear. I am glad he gave you the documents for your interview. How did the interview go?

Swan: Brin - I am doing well, just working and living life day to day, but I have peace so guess I can say all is good.

Brin: Swan, Yes, last week, he started by saying "How much do you care about your citizenship application? Think about it!" When I asked what he meant, he didn't clarify but basically it was a threat i.e. you better treat me nice otherwise, you will not get your citizenship! And he brought that up again last night. He asked why I thought he should help me. I told him that he was living in this house, that's why. The interview went very well. The officer recommended me for approval so now I just wait to get the letter of approval and oath ceremony date.

Brin: Swan, It's great that you are having peace about your life. Thanks for your prayers. I know they have helped me get through the past week.

Bill: Hi Little Magpie. How are things today?

Brin: Swan, I agree with you that my H is very insecure. Everything is about other people treating him badly instead of seeing that they are consequences for his own actions and behavior.

Swan: Brin - there are times when it appears that life is smacking me hard right in the solar plexus, and prayer is what helps me to keep from going into panic mode. I may not have any control over what is happening, but I do believe that God has it all in His hands, so it will work out the way it is supposed to. Now granted there are times when it involves others and their choices might come into play, but again, I have faith that God has got my back, so I don't sweat the small stuff and I just somehow manage to see it all as small stuff.

Little Magpie: All- Hello. I just got in so was trying to get caught up.

Brin: Swan, It sure helps to see it all as small stuff and surrender to God's hands. It's a process for me. I also went to a Christian working woman's conference this past weekend, which also has been very helpful this week.

Bill: Little Magpie - slow night in the chat room so you can catch up quickly!

Swan: Brin - Reactive people tend to go through life with the mentality that everything wrong in their lives is always someone else's fault, but they are very willing to take credit for anything positive. They haven't learned that life should be lived proactively. But if they did, they wouldn't be able to play the eternal victim.

Little Magpie: bill - still really struggling with changes, losses and trying to encourage my H to communicate.

Bill: Little Magpie: Where do you think the block is that has you stuck in this place?

Brin: Swan, Agreed. And this logic and thinking is so nuts that I can't fathom it or know how to respond when he pressures me to answer his questions/accusations. It's so frustrating and it feels as if I'm talking to a crazy man. He uses threats and says mean things to push my buttons. I call this psychological warfare.

Little Magpie: Bill - I think it's that the closer we get to our eldest daughter getting married and moving on the more important it is to me to not have us stop communicating totally

Brin: Swan, Bill shared with me the Doctrinal Affirmation (from The Bondage Breaker). I've been praying it every morning and believe it's helping to empower me each day. I also ordered the book and am looking forward to reading it.

Bill: Little Magpie: Interesting.

Little Magpie: bill - h has not been the best communicator but the kids made up for that. Now that potentially we have no kids and it's just us, it's more important

Swan: Brin - I remember way back when we were first married and my husband got stopped on base at a security check point, well he and the other four people had been at the club and even though my husband says he wasn't drunk, he still blew a positive on the breath test. The result was that he lost his driving privileges on base for a year. While he was at school, it wasn't an issue for him since the school was only a couple buildings over and anything else he needed to go to was only a short walk. He had to park the car off base at a co Marine's house and could drive off base. When he got home, it became more of an inconvieniance and somehow my fault. He expected me to drop everyone thing and be his transportation everywhere. It was never his action or choice that was the problem, it was the stupid MP that pulled them over, it was me that was putting other things ahead of his military responsibilities, etc. I offered to quit my job to drive him all over the place, oh no, that was a fight because we needed my income! He just made no logical sense, other than to himself.

Swan: Brin - have you read the book or any of Neil Anderson's other books, he is a great author and has so much great information.

Bill: Little Magpie: Just from a "guy" perspective, most of us will avoid talking and shut down when we feel pressure to talk. I know it is immature and silly but men have a deep aversion to activities they don't believe they can succeed at. I still see it in me with Pam and we have a strong relationship. If I sense Pam is pushing or is critical, I have to fight hard to stay engaged. I don't know if this is part of your dynamic but I suspect your H is feeling the "pressure" to be better as your D is getting ready to grow up.

Brin: Swan, wow - yeah he didn't make sense. Your H expected others to pander to his needs and wants because he himself was too stressed or unable to handle the inconveniences.

Bill: Little Magpie: I agree that you and H will do best if you discover a new friendship with each other.

Brin: Swan, Not yet. I order the Bondage Breaker and Essential Guide to Spiritual Warfare and am looking forward to reading them. BTW, I also ordered a camera detector because I don't trust my H. Not sure if he's mean enough to record me when I'm in the bathroom or bedroom getting changed. I just never know. I actually feel unsafe, enough to be carrying my purse with me everywhere I am in the house or yard. His threats and mean words has gotten hold of my imagination and I am trying to not take any chances. If he's feeling victimized, I think he just might do something mean even if he regrets it afterwards.

Bill: Little Magpie: Men also do better communicating side by side than face to face. I think it is strategic for you to keep asking God for wisdom on something you can do together that both of you actually like. For Pam and me, it took years to discover that we both like to kayak. Another friend of ours loves to garden and was often frustrated with her husband until they discovered he is really good at taking pictures of gardens. Still another friend has a husband who loves riding motorcycles which she doesn't enjoy at all but they discovered almost by accident that they both enjoy antiques. They found it out when she decided to go on a ride with him. She asked if they could stop because she wasn't enjoying it at all. They happened to stop at an antique store which ended up being the highlight of the day.

Swan: Brin - they can definitely find our buttons can't they. My husband used to really push mine, especially when I would state my boundary. I think the one he hated the most was that I want to communicate with him, to be able to listen and respond, however, when he is yelling and throwing a fit, calling me names, etc. I am so fearful that I just can't be in his presence, that flight becomes my first response and if I feel that I can't flee, then fight takes over and I don't want to live in that place, I become a person that isn't very nice and say things that disrespect him. I would tell him that I needed to remove myself from the situation to feel safe, however, as soon as he could continue the conversation in a proactive manner I definitely wanted to hear what he needs to say. At first he would attempt to force me to stay in his presence, then he finally gave up and would make a nasty comment, step aside and tell me to run and hide like a brat. It didn't keep him from his anger, but it did seem to shorten the time of them and he would come into my room (after the kids moved out I made one of their bedrooms a craft, office space for me) and just say he wasn't mad anymore, which meant he had calmed down and was ready to be less reactive.

Swan: Brin - wow, he is capable of spy cams, please do the camera sweep and be safe.

Brin: Swan, Sounds like your approach worked. I have been trying to do that with my H but even when calm, he's still illogical and expects an answer that I can't give. At least not answer that he wants to hear.

Brin: Swan, I don't know for sure if he would do it but he's definitely capable of anything mean (just to get even with me or anyone). It's what he calls his defense mechanism.

Little Magpie: Bill - I will keep that in mind. For the past month or so I have had to drive him around since he tore a muscle in his calf and is unable to drive (right calf) as he has an immobilizer boot on it. We do some talking but not a lot. I tend to need background noise and he prefers quiet when talking one of our MANY differences. We need to try to find things. Lately we get home and one of us if not both climb into bed and sleep. I usually fall asleep to a book on audible or the radio and he is watching YouTube or reading a book not conducive to conversation

Brin: Swan, It's time to go. Thanks so much for chatting. It's been helpful. Have a great night and rest of the week.

Swan: Brin - it took many many times before he even started to accept that I wasn't going to stay and fight with him, at first for the most part I would leave the house and go to one of our kids or a friends for a while, but I hated bringing others into the insanity.

Swan: Night Brin - will continue to keep your situation and safety in prayer. Have a great week, see you next week.

Brin: Thanks Swan!

Bill: Little Magpie: Keep praying for wisdom on this. I know you both would like this to work well but we often get caught up in the way we used to do things and seeing new ideas can be foggy. It only takes one breakthrough moment, however, to make a big difference. Ask God to give one or both of you an AHA moment that makes things clear.

Bill: All: Need to run. I am flying tonight so need to get to the airport. Blessings!!

Little Magpie: Bill - Thank you! I am working on getting my prayer life back on track. Safe journeys!

Little Magpie: Brin, Swan - Good night

March 20, 2019 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Bill: Little Magpie: In the midst of your own struggles, I am always amazed at how aware you are of what is happening in other's lives. Your comment about Swan's computer is one more example of the gift God gave you of noticing what is going on.

Little Magpie: Bill - I feel so worthless and unnecessary. I keep trying to forge a verbally satisfactory relationship with spouse and friendships. It is so hard. I don't know if I will ever get the knack.

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March 13, 2019 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Swan: Bill - I had to learn boundaries, my childhood opened me up to be completely reactive and for years it was a factor, but minor in our family. My husband had his own issues with boundaries and we both allowed each other and others to be in control too often. When MLC hit and I found Jim, he recommended Boundaries and as I read those books it started to really make sense to me and once I practiced boundaries, it became so much easier for me to be proactive and far less reactive.

Bill: Swan: Boundaries are one of the primary skills us wounded warriors need to be good at. I am encouraged that you understand boundaries are all about what you will do not what you expect others to do. When you said to your boss, "he needed to remove himself from me or I would leave," you demonstrated the power of always having something you can do regardless of how the other person is acting. This is a brilliant example of what boundaries truly look like.

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March 06, 2019 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Bill: Brin: at the risk of prying - I noticed you said, "he should see that I distance myself more when he does this." This is a good example of what happens to all of us who have been wounded. We have a tendency to focus on what others "ought" to be doing, "should" be doing, and “could" do to make things better. Logically, it is correct but they are all statements we have no control over. As a result, we deepen our sense of powerlessness as we focus on situations that ought to be different but never change. Learning to think and act in ways that actually cause real change is one of the most challenging skills to develop.

Brin: Bill, what would you suggest then in this situation? I agree - learning to think/act in ways that can cause change is very challenging - after so many decades.

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February 20, 2019 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Little Magpie: Bill- how do we convince them?

Bill: Little Magpie: You don't. You just represent what is best and ask God to convince them.

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February 13, 2019 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Swan: Bill - My husband did this to our grandson a few times when he still lived in the San Diego area, after so many times our son told his dad that when he makes plans to either follow through or don't say anything to the grandson, just show or don't, but he wasn't going to allow his father to continue to break this little boys heart by promising and then not caring enough to do it. We all thought my husband was going to get really upset and do the disown thing, but he actually said he understood and complied with our son's rules, at least for a couple years, then did the no show thing again, but at least called two days later with the excuse that the other woman wouldn't let him visit with them. Before MLC, one thing my husband was, was a man of his word, after MLC his word seems to mean nothing but air coming out of his mouth.

Bill: Swan: It is confusing because our beloved MLCers love their family members. They are just too scared of their influence to build solid connections. Confusion and undependable actions give them the out they are looking for without having to admit they are weak. I find it interesting your H blamed the OW - sounds like the garden all over again.

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February 06, 2019 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Swan: Bill - I agree with being tired of the "I deserve to be happy" comments, especially when it hurts so many people. I know my husband told me that as well and in just a matter of months after he married the other woman he was telling friends that he was miserable. I don't know details, but my husband has apparently moved to Texas and the other woman is not with him and from what he is telling people she isn't going to join him at anytime. It is so sad how these MLCer's spiral down in their pursuits to be happy and most of the times become more unhappy.

Bill: Swan: Exactly, the "happy" pursuit is just code for selfish, self-centered choices that make everyone else pay a price for my agenda. Life is not a "happy" experience. It is a comprehensive journey that includes success and failure, joys and pains, growth and maturity, tragedies and grieving and the discovery of eternal hope that makes things right for eternity. To boil it down to simply be happy, we are missing the point. As a result, anyone who settles for the pursuit of happiness at the expense of the other realities, does damage on all fronts.

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December 26, 2018 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

buttons: bill yes, churches should be the places people can go for growth and healing, where they can find support challenge is that churches are also made up of humans who exhibit human nature and free choice and sometimes exude their own self rather than God's being. I have found love and caring in churches, I have also found those who love God but don't understand things too.

Bill: button: well said about the church as any collection of people are prone to bad behavior. The church is, however, covered by God's promise and His grace so there is more to work with in churches than any other institution.

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November 28, 2018 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

HopinginHim1: Bill - I completely agree. My study of scripture has spoken very clearly to me. My H has not abandoned me. His financial resources are completely available to me and the children. We see each other quite regularly and he is very involved in my life and in the children's. So I feel that until the Lord directs me otherwise, I am called to remain a faithful wife and to wait upon the Lord for His clear direction and for the heart change in my H that only the Lord can enable. I see our vows as a covenant and marriage as a reflection of the Lord's faithfulness to His church. Despite our rebellion, the Lord sacrificially chose to die for His bride. Although I am not Christ, I feel called to live sacrificially for the potential restoration of my H to the Lord and as an example of marriage commitment before my children.

Bill: HopinginHim1 the other thing I would remind you of is the nature of marriage and restoration. It is the only relationship in the Bible that reflects the gospel and demonstrates the intimacy that exists in the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). As a result, it is a journey of the heart. This can be difficult news because the heart can be stubborn. It can be good news, however, because the heart changes quickly when it changes. You and your H can go months and years without being connected and then it can suddenly change and restoration can be accomplished quickly. This is challenging because as we wait, we can get to a place where we think it will never happen and then it kicks into gear catching us off guard. Waiting is a very mature skill!

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November 21, 2018 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Swan: Bill - I have found over the years of dealing with bullies, that they are actual very insecure people. My husband was a great Marine and could be so effective as a military leader, but the other areas of his life he really didn't know how to be secure and attempted to be in control and if anything didn't go exactly as he wanted his reaction was to try to overpower through aggression and intimidation. Coming from a step father that used abuse to control, I accepted my husband's actions as normal. It was went MLC took over our lives and I found this site (Jim) and reading books by Cloud and Townsend that helped me understand that is was not only OK to have boundaries, but to enforce them with love was beneficial for all concerned. I do find it helps me much more to have boundaries, I have far less resentments.

Bill: Swan: What you just described is information everyone ought to know and every parent ought to teach these skills to their kids. I am convinced that pride and insecurity are cousins. Those who feel a need to control are painfully aware that life is bigger than them but they don't want to admit it. As a result, they bully others and manipulate circumstances all the while feeling they are going to fail at any moment. Knowing how to set boundaries and choosing calm strength is a vital skill that everyone needs at some point in their lives. As a result, those of us who have these skills must keep sharing them with others. thanks for being on the journey.

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November 07, 2018 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Swan: Bill - I know people that are in second or more marriages and they say they never think of their ex spouse unless someone brings them up, I just don't understand how anyone can just not think of a person they once shared so much with, especially when there are children. My mother was like that, or so she claimed, we would ask her about our father as we got older and she often said, she couldn't remember as an answer. When I did meet my father as an adult, he often said the same thing. How do you just forget?

Bill: Swan: Weird isn't it? I think people "forget" as a defense mechanism. They actually remember and it is traumatic so their soul causes a fog to roll in to protect them feeling all the pain.

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